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Wednesday, April 19, 2006

 

Discovering the Batasan Complex + more

For the past 1 month and 23 days, I became familiar with the various places inside the Batasan Complex and the persons assigned to ensure our safety from the snooping eyes of the Criminal Investigation and Detection Group (CIDG) of the Philippine National Police (PNP).

Permit me to share you a "virtual guided tour" of the Batasan Complex.

The distinguished members of the House of Representatives can hold open air gatherings – forums, seminars, holy mass, birthday parties, etc. – at many points in Congress. You have the sunken garden near the congress minority office, at the grotto just beside the southwing lobby entrance, or at the so-called freedom park where the big mango trees provide protection from the heat. These are good alternatives to expensive hotels and conference sites.

There is an open basketball court where everyone can sweat it out after a jog within the complex. My son Harvey Rafael (HR) and I play on this court every 4:00 to 6:00 pm for the past week now. I cannot defeat my son in our one-on-one engagement since a 14-year old kid has a strong legs and more stamina than his 39-year-old father. He has a Caidic-esque left hand that aids his shooting prowess.

I also learned that a covered court is soon to be built near the present basketball area. I am hoping that HR and I will not anymore play on that new court. That is, if our petitions before the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court are immediately acted upon. Any favorable resolution of the said petitions would send us back to our homes.

Oh, by the way, there is the padlocked sports club facility in the Batasan that is not maximized. A senior colleague in the House intimated to me that it can be refurbished as a dorm for the visitors who come from provincial districts. Not a bad idea compared to spending much more for a stay in hotels.

But more than the places and buildings in the complex, it is much worthwhile getting to know the people who are with us. The personnel from the Congress Legislative Security Bureau (LSB) tasked by the plenary to secure us. Hence, they do extra time apart from their usual hours of duty.

My habit of staying up late at night to talk to them, especially when we were still sleeping at the Speaker's conference room educated me so much as far as their situations are concerned.

They secure us but they are insecure in so far as the status of their employment is concerned. This early, they are told that everything will start from zero come July 2006 since the parliament will already be formed. Allegedly, certain computations for their benefits are already being cooked-up as to how much each individual employee gets the moment their items are dissolved.

They are afraid of Charter Change (Chacha). For them, Gloria's Cha-cha dance equals UNEMPLOYMENT!

I took pains in explaining to them our position against Chacha. I explained to them that the shift to parliamentary from presidential form is not the solution to the huge mess that the country is facing right now. I also shared how Chacha will affect our economy and patrimony. My explanations went beyond the issue of unemployment, if ever Chacha pushes through. Deep down, I knew it would take some time before our discussion points would sink in.

Come to think of it, the Chacha = unemployment line can be a feasible line inside the House!

Oh well. The Batasan indeed remains a complex environment for anyone and everyone. Discovering it can be a joyful experience for those seeking thorough-going changes in our country.

128 Comments:

Blogger pinoy said...

bakit kayo tumatanggap ng pork barrel samantalang tinututulan nyo naman ito noon? kung pagbabago ang hangad nyo, dapat simulan nyo sa mga sarili nyo!

11:06 PM  
Blogger wimdc said...

Hi Joel! Reading your impressions about your huge new "home" in QC I was remembering when I visited your family's small home at the back of the sari-sari store in Davao. It was the best kinilaw I've ever had. I guess those people who are now whining about your pork barrel (the little government money that's being put to good use) wouldn't even survive in those circumstances. But who cares anyway? Mabuhay kayo!

11:36 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to wimdc:

no i am not whining, i am demanding an explanation. i don't care if the money is put to good use. that is not my issue. my issue is their hypocrisy! they were against it before. now that they benefit from it, they shut their mouth.

12:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

noypi (or pinoy),

mg suicide ka na lang, napa irrelevant ng tanong mo. ang dami ng nagsabi dyan kung ano pa ang nasa kokote mong bulok na rin yata. ikaw ang nabulok kasama ng sistemang sinasabi mo.

ano kaya mg congressman ka lang para makatikim ka din nun?

12:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to pinoy :

we are the Filipino caregivers here in los angeles, california that were forced to migrate here in the us to bring food in the tables of our families. do you know the hardships that we are suffering here, plus the fact that we are treated here as slaves because of our being undocumented?

instead of lashing out the batasan 6 (who have done nothing wrong to you but instead are doing the sacrifices that not any politicos are doing), why not support them instead so they can continue to become fiscalizers of our government? we need people like them to assure us that there are still Filipinos who will fight for the people's interests in Congress.

it is not hypocrasy that they receive the pork barrel...the hypocrasy is if they use this funds to enrich themselves? ask yourself if they are leading lives of the rich and famous, if they have build mansions, if they travel to other countries for leisure? all these stuff that our typical politicians do at the expense of our tax money...

it saddens us, filipinos outside the philippines , to see comments like yours...what we wanted to see is that we are in unity to help solve our problems...we are in unity to support legislators that are truly working for the people's interest and not for themselves... right now, i am writing this blog while i am caring a millionaire Jewish old man living in a mansion here in beverly hills...he is already 90 years old but no one in his family wants to take care of him even with his millions...see? in the philippines, this will not happen...we are a very caring people that whether we are rich or poor, majority of us will not let our aging family members to live alone and be cared by strangers...this is the kind of society that i wanted to return after seving as "slaves" here...so please, my erquest is if you are
still in the philippines, the most that you can do is to support those that have opted to sacrifice to build a better Philippines...so that no Filipinos will be forced to become slaves in other richer countries...that we will all live in dignity and at least a decent life....

these are only my thoughts...from a Filipina caregiver here in the us...

4:32 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

magpost ka uli ng tanong hinggil sa pork barrel pinoy. pagkatapos, huwag mong basahin yung mga sagot nila. tapos, post ka uli ng tanong. punoin mo ng tanong hinggil sa pork barrel ang pahinang ito para magmukha kang hindi tanga. Ulitin ko ha. Huwag mong basahin yung mga sagot nila.

5:59 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

pakipaliwanag nga pinoy anong ibig mong sabihin ng " now that they benefit from it. . . "? Sa tingin kasi namin, mga tao ang nagbenefit sa PDAF ng batasan6, hindi sila mismo. Pakipaliwanag nga baka kasi iyan ang source ng di mo pagkaintindi sa mga sagot nila.

6:05 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to the caregiver in los angeles:

it is not my intent to sow disunity. i am simply demanding an explanation. i voted for Bayan Muna in the last two elections. although some people are against their rallies, i will not raise my voice against it. i sincerely believe we need these groups as fiscalizers. if they will not march in the streets, this administration will just do anything it wants with impunity. i support their strategy of joining the mainstream politics but .....

we all know that the pork barrel is a symbol of corruption to the highest degree. the batasan 6 were all against it before they entered the halls of congress. they should have been consistent. they should have refused this pork barrel as a symbol of change. oh yes, we cannot eat change but change has to start somewhere.

one day, when i saw that big ambulance bearing the name of GABRIELA and LIZA MASA, i said to myself, they were eaten by the system. i am not questioning where the money goes. i am questioning the act of receiving it.

it is hypocrisy to receive this money becasue they were rallying against it before. i could remember clearly one of their placards saying "SCRAP THE PORK BARREL". That was before they got elected. I am not saying that they enriched or enriching themselves with this money.

except for that GABRIELA ambulance, i really don't know where they spent the money. but chances are the projects this money funded would bear, "through the efforts of Ka Satur/Bayan Muna" or somethin to that effect. trapong trapo. GABRIELA may have spent the money on the ambulance but do they have to flaunt it that it is through their effort and through this representative? Can't they just let the ambulance be without markings? They can't. Sayang ang propaganda value ng ambulance. Trapong trapo.

I am expecting a lot from these people because I voted for their party. I want to see change. I saw them as an opportunity for the change that we all desire. If they are truly principled individuals, they should have resisted this and fought against it instead. Unfortunately, money is just too hard to resist. Trapo na rin sila.

you say that i should support those who have opted to sacrifice to build a better philippines. yes, indeed i supported them for the votes they got from me. sacrifice? that is what i am demanding from them right now. sacrifice the pork barrel as a symbol of change that we all want to achieve.

8:02 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to johndoe:

hindi pa sinasagot ang tanong ko. paki post mo na lang uli kung meron na at baka naligtaan ko lang. unang una, hindi naman talaga ako nagtatanong. nanunumbat lang. sabi nila noon "SCRAP THE PORK BARREL" tapos ngayon tumatanggap sila? kaplastikan!!!!

"now that they benefit from it.." - halimbawa na lang yung sinabi ko sa nauna kong post na ambulansya ng GABRIELA. Pagnakita mo yung ambulansya malayo palang mababasa mo na yung mga salitang GABRIELA at LIZA MASA. O di ba, libreng propaganda na. Sigurado ko yung ibang mga proyekto nila may nakalagay na "mula kay Rep. Teddy Casino", "handog ni KA Crispin Beltran", etc. Laking pakinabang di ba. Libreng propaganda tulad ng ginagawa ng halos lahat ng mga pulitiko sa isusulat ang mga pangalan nila kahit saang pwede isulat ito.

8:10 AM  
Anonymous mahayag said...

Pinoy ano ba ang problema mo talaga?
Sinasagot ka naman sa mga tanong mo... paulit-ulit ka para kang sirang plaka!

10:25 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to mahayag:

nasaan? nasaan ang sagot nila? hindi ko kailangan ang sagot ng anonymous at johndoe dahil hindi naman sila ang tinatanong ko at hindi naman sila ang ibinoto ko. BAYAN MUNA ang binoto ko sa partylist sa nakaraang dalawang halalan. hindi ibig sabihin nun magsusunud sunuran na lang ako sa ano mang maging desisyon at patakaran nila. karapatan ko lang mahanap ng paliwanag kung bakit sila nagpalamon sa sistema.

nang makita ko ang blog na ito, hindi ko na pinalagpas ang pagkakataon. hindi ako titigil hangga't di sila magpapaliwanag kung bakit kinain nila ang mga salita nila. ipamumukha ko at isusumbat ko yon dahil sila ang ibinoto ko sa pag aakalang pagbabago ang hangad nila. yun pala magpapaka trapo lang sila.

10:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tama si pinoy, mga TRAPO na rin mga batasan 6 na yan. Bakit nila tinatangap mga Pork barrel nila. Bakit di nila gayahin si Sen. Lacson or Lim.
TRAPO- traditional politician
1. Puro pangako before the eleksyon
2. Puro billboard or advertisment sa mga proyekto
PWEEEEEEEEEE.....

10:59 AM  
Anonymous vinsoy said...

May hinala lang ako sa style ni pinoy (and may be siya ang new name ni Noli Me Tangere):

inililihis nya ang usapan mula sa political persecution sa akala nyang achilles heel na pork barrel.

magpakita kayo kaya ng project billboard na may mukha ni Ka Bel or Ka Satur saanman meron. I bet wala.

Bakit hindi upakan si Gloria na mas malaki ang mukha sa billboard kaysa mismo sa project na ginagawa na hindi naman siya ang may pakana in the first place?

And yes, if you like Ping Lacson - go iboto mo siya.

And if you don't like to vote for Bayan Muna, the don't. choice mo yan.

11:47 AM  
Anonymous maginoo said...

to pinoy and all those anti-batsan 6 bloggers:

mabuti nga tinatanggap ng batasan 6 ang pork barrel dahil kahit konti, may nakakarating at nakakatulong sa mga tao...alam ninyo, sa prinsipyo, talagang hindi sana ok ang pork barrel pero ito nga ang kalakaran sa pilipinas...bale sa tingin ko, ayaw naman tanggalin ng mainstream na mga congressmen ang pondong ito, so at least, may isang grupo ng mga legislators natin ang gumagawa ng paraan na maipaabot ito sa mga naghihirap na mamamayan...iyong tungkol naman sa mga ambulansya ni liza maza at nakalagay ang pangalan niya at gabriela, ito ay para ipaalam sa sambayanang pilipino na dito napupunta ang pork barrel nila at hindi sa kanilang mga sarili...di ba kayong mga anti-batasan 6 , siansabi na napupunta sa mga komunista ang kanilang pondo, ngayong ipinapakita naman nila para may name recall at malaman ng masa na talagang ang pondo ay para sa kanila, nagagalit naman kayo at sinasabing ipokrito sila? "damn if you do, damn if you don't"... hindi naman ito ang isyu talaga...ang pork barrel ay tip of the iceberg lang...bakit hindi kayo manggalaiti sa tunay na salot ng ating bayan...ang pagiging sakop natin ng amerika, ang pagkontrol nila sa ating ekonomya, ang pakikinabang nila ng ating likas na yaman...at iba pa...bakit hindi ito ang panggalaitin ninyo? "you are barking on the wrong tree", ika nga ...

11:47 AM  
Anonymous janisleejoplin said...

i think Gabriela's Liza Maza, the Bayan Muna and Anakpawis congresspeople have every right to seize the opportunity to let the people know what their projects are and where their funds go.

i bet if people dont see these signs or ambulances, detractors (including and especially those coming from the most powerful corners of government) would begin to raise question where their funds are going.

so, the pork barrel, created no less by the trapos, is a testament of corruption.. should Maza et al refuse the pork barrel?

i would rather that these progressive congresspeople become channels to ensure that public funds are put into good use. if they dont receive it and initiate projects for these funds, chances are, these funds will be used by the trapos to buy overpriced fertilizers.

mas gusto nyo ba yun?

12:42 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to vinsoy:

"inililihis nya ang usapan mula sa political persecution sa akala nyang achilles heel na pork barrel. "

sinasmantala ko lang ang pagkakataon na nagbo blog sila. para diretsahan kong masabi ang saloobin ko. political persecution? malay ko dito at hindi ako interesado. pa martir effect lang yan para sa akin. maganda sa balita at camera.

"magpakita kayo kaya ng project billboard na may mukha ni Ka Bel or Ka Satur saanman meron. I bet wala."
wala akong sinabing may mukha. ang sabi ko, may nakalagay na mga pangalan nila.

"Bakit hindi upakan si Gloria na mas malaki ang mukha sa billboard kaysa mismo sa project na ginagawa na hindi naman siya ang may pakana in the first place?"

hindi siya ang isyu ko dito.

"And yes, if you like Ping Lacson - go iboto mo siya. "

kahit siya na lang ang nag iisang kandidato, hindi ko pa rin sya iboboto.

"And if you don't like to vote for Bayan Muna, the don't. choice mo yan. "

dalawang beses ko nga silang ibinoto.


to maginoo:

"pero ito nga ang kalakaran sa pilipinas".

iyon nga mismo ang ipinamumukha ko sa kanila. na nilamon na sila ng sistema. kailan pa magkakaroon ng totoong pagbabago kung magpapalamon na lang palagi tayo sa sistema.

lumalabas na hindi ito usapin ng prinsipyo kundi usapin ng kung saan sila makikinabang. noong ala pa sila sa kongreso, mabango para sa tao ang panawagang "SCRAP THE PORK BARREL". Ngayong nasa poder na sila, malaking pakinabang ang P70 milyon bawat isa para sa mga proyekto nila.

"iyong tungkol naman sa mga ambulansya ni liza maza at nakalagay ang pangalan niya at gabriela, ito ay para ipaalam sa sambayanang pilipino na dito napupunta ang pork barrel nila at hindi sa kanilang mga sarili".

di ba lahat ng pulitiko yan naman ang sinasabi. ipinaaalam sa atin kung saan napupunta ang pork barrel. ano ang ipinagkaiba nila sa mga trapo? malaki ang expectation ko sa kanila sa pagpasok nila sa kongreso. ibinoto ko sila. paniwala ko may prinsipyo sila. na kakaiba sila. na sila ang magsusulong ng pagbabago. pero nagpaka trapo na rin sila.

"you are barking on the wrong tree".

ibang usapin ang imperyalismo.

to janisleejoplin:
"should Maza et al refuse the pork barrel? "

YES! that is my issue. pork barrel is not just a testament of corruption. it is its symbol. if we seek change, we should start with ourselves.

"if they dont receive it and initiate projects for these funds, chances are, these funds will be used by the trapos to buy overpriced fertilizers. "

vigilance is the key.

1:26 PM  
Anonymous maginoo said...

TO PINOY:

nabasa ko ang lahat ng mga comments mo, hindi lang dito sa article na ito kundi sa iba pang mga sinusulat ng batasan 6. i am sorry to say na i ended up concluding na either you are a government agent or walang magawaNG TAO na nang-iinis lang sa mga nagpo-post dito. this is my last message to you at i am calling all the bloggers here na HUWAG KA NG PANSININ/MAG-DEADMA NA LANG SA IYONG MGA OPINION DAHIL YOU ARE IMPOSSIBLE! Yes, we will read you postings but NR (no reaction) na lang kami until you stop and talk to the marines!okay?

3:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PINOY, WE SUPPORT YOU. TAMA YUNG MGA SABI MO. "DAPAT SIMULAN ANG PAGBAGO SA SARILI". BINILI ANG PORK BARREL NANG ARMAS AT BALA PARA SA KAWAL PINOY NANG MGA COMMUNISTA. TINGNAN MO ANG FLAG NANG MGA NPA, "HAMMER AND SICKLE" ANG TATAK.

4:52 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

first, my statements are not for anonymous, johndoe, maginoo, etc. it is directed to the batasan 6.

second, i am posting to take advanctage of the internet to expose to the world the hypocrisy of this group by not refusing the pork barrel.

third, face the issue i am raising instead of calling me a govt agent or walang magawa.

fourth, i will keep on posting all i want while comments are still not moderated for i am sure sooner or later they will moderate this to prevent me from further exposing their hypocrisy.

and lastly, but not my last post, it's not my problem if no one will react to my statements. i am here not to debate but to expose.

5:09 PM  
Anonymous john doe said...

didn't i see with my big eyes that "pinoy" is the "Noli Me Tangere" persona who is making panggap na good guy above Gloria, the Batasan 6 and all...

haaaaaaaaaaay.

deadma forever...

hwekhwekhwekhwekhwekhwekhwek

7:28 PM  
Blogger plad007 said...

PORK BARREL
ive heard that the so-called batasan 6 are willing to give up their pork so long as: (1) all other govt officials will also give up theirs and (2) all these funds would be allocated for basic social services.Kung hindi rin lang, hahayaan na lang ba nilang mapunta ito sa bulsa ng mga kurakot na mga opisyal ng gobyerno, gayong pwede naman nila itong gamitin para sa kanilang mga consituents?Kung tutuusin, maliit ang pork barrel nila kumpara sa pork barrel ng mga district congressmen. Sa pagkakaalam ko, pareho lang ang halagang natatanggap ng partylist reps at ng district congressmen, kahit na nationwide ang constituency ng partylists, habang isang distrito lang ang sakop ng karamihan s amga kongresista.

7:42 PM  
Blogger ptz821 said...

pinoy,

maraming salamat syo... alam mo imbes na mabasawan ang suporta ng batasan6 lalong dumarami ng dahil sa logic mo, saka ung mga anonymous na ayaw magpakilala. May balita ako syo, sa susunod na eleksyon hindi lang 6 na kongressman ang mailuluoklok ng bayan block, magkakaroon na kame ng representative mula sa hanay ng migrante, kabataan, etc sectors. at higit sa lahat mas dadame ang ambulansya, health clinic, classroom, mga poso, baranggay mobile patrol, mga iskolar, naku baka magpakamatay ka na nyan.

7:48 PM  
Blogger plad007 said...

to pinoy:
it's all right to demand for an explanation regarding pork barrel. and i think the explanations in this page are clear and enough. still unsatisfied? it's all right to ask more on this, just make sure you dont ask exactly the same questions over and over...

7:52 PM  
Blogger plad007 said...

PINOY

i think you need a little REintegration to the "tibak system" so youd be able to better compare it with the one you've been into since you broke away. Yan yata talaga napapala ng mga nagla-lie low at hindi iniintindi ang mga lessons... makipamuhay ka uli sa masa at sa mamamamyang nakikibaka para sa kanilang mga karapatan. Samahan mo sila sa pagpunta sa mga tanggapan ng Anakpawis, Bayan Muna at Gabriela sa kongreso para magrequest na mag file ng bill o resolution calling for investigation, or para humingi ng medical assistance, o para magrequest na magpagawa ng building, tulay, o irrigigation sa kani-kanilang mga lugar. kasi i dont think youd let urself be convinced even by the explanations of the representatives themselves.

As regards libreng prop through projects, sisiw yun sa mga ginagastos nina gloria and cohorts sa mga paid ads nila sa tv, radio at print na puro mga kasinungalingan naman. ads like "hindi masakit sa bulsa ang e-vat" (damnit!)

Saka how dare you compare the batasan 6 to the trapos only on the basis of pork barrel? so doing would make you seem so narrow minded. you souldnt limit your analysis to those. there are much more points of comparisons.

una, kung sayo hypocricy ang pagtanggap nila ng pork barrel, sa mga mahihirap na nakikinabang nito, hindi. Siyempre, sino ba ang mas iintindihin nila? opinyon mo o opinyon nung napakaraming humihingi ng medical assistance, hard projects, etc?

pangalawa, alamin mo naman kung ano yung mga ginagawa nila sa kongreso, yung mga legislative outputs nila...

the very situation they're in right now is a strong proof that the system has not engulfed them, neither that they have become much like the trapos. it's the exact opposite. They have been consistent in their stands against corruption and all the government's anti-people policies. kaya nga sila lang ang pinepersecute ngayon eh. Di mo ba natanong, bakit silang anim lang? Kasi they are the only genuine opposition in the House of Representatives.

Do a little more research.

8:27 PM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

ok rin yung style ni pinoy ah. Nagpapanggap siyang bumuto sa Bayan Muna noong nakaraang dalawang eleksyon para magkaroon siya ngayon ng karapatang manumbat hinggil sa pork barrel. Ok rin.

Pero bago kasi niya nasabi iyan, kung basahin natin uli yung unang mga comments niya, halata na hindi lang siya simpleng disgruntled voter ng BM dahil sa pagtanggap ng pork barrel daw. Tama si Vinsoy, banat siya sa isyung yan ngayon dahil parang nakita ni pinoy na achilles heel ito ng BM at iba pang PPL.

Sa mga unang comments ni pinoy, kasama siya ni Noli Me Tangere na bira ng bira na mga duwag daw ang B6 dahil hindi lumabas. Pero sa article ni Ka Satur (Good Friday Reflections or something), nadurog ang kanilang banat dahil naipakita doon na ang DOJ, CIDG at Malacanang ang hindi sumunod sa batas na dapat lang idefy ng Batasan6. Mukhang nag-assess sila pinoy kasama ang kanilang handler at naconclude nila "dito kayo tira dahil parang bulnerable sila jan". Parang misyon ni pinoy na "tirahin mo sila jan para di sila makadiscuss sa rightness of their cause dahil malakas ang baraha nila jan".

Kaya maganda mga kasama magdiscuss tayo hinggil sa rightness of our cause.

8:27 PM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

ok rin yung style ni pinoy ah. Nagpapanggap siyang bumuto sa Bayan Muna noong nakaraang dalawang eleksyon para magkaroon siya ngayon ng karapatang manumbat hinggil sa pork barrel. Ok rin.

Pero bago kasi niya nasabi iyan, kung basahin natin uli yung unang mga comments niya, halata na hindi lang siya simpleng disgruntled voter ng BM dahil sa pagtanggap ng pork barrel daw. Tama si Vinsoy, banat siya sa isyung yan ngayon dahil parang nakita ni pinoy na achilles heel ito ng BM at iba pang PPL.

Sa mga unang comments ni pinoy, kasama siya ni Noli Me Tangere na bira ng bira na mga duwag daw ang B6 dahil hindi lumabas. Pero sa article ni Ka Satur (Good Friday Reflections or something), nadurog ang kanilang banat dahil naipakita doon na ang DOJ, CIDG at Malacanang ang hindi sumunod sa batas na dapat lang idefy ng Batasan6. Mukhang nag-assess sila pinoy kasama ang kanilang handler at naconclude nila "dito kayo tira dahil parang bulnerable sila jan". Parang misyon ni pinoy na "tirahin mo sila jan para di sila makadiscuss sa rightness of their cause dahil malakas ang baraha nila jan".

Kaya maganda mga kasama magdiscuss tayo hinggil sa rightness of our cause.

8:28 PM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

sorry nadoble. paano ba pagdelete nyan? ang haba pa naman.

john doe, baka magkapalit tayo ng mukha nyan ha!

8:32 PM  
Blogger plad007 said...

Bat may iilan na hindi tumatanggap ng pork barrel? hmm.. makes me wonder where they get the money they use to help their constituents and to advance their political careers...personal money? impossible. or..should i ask, paano ba sila naglilingkod sa bayan? naglilingkod nga ba talaga? i dont have any answer to those right now. baka may reliable sources kayo na pwede makatulong...

8:33 PM  
Blogger plad007 said...

PINOY
political persecution? pa-martir effect lang?
hay naku, sana nga pang-camera lang, sana nga pa-martir effect lang...kaso hindi...
lahat ng dinadanas ng batasan 6 at ng mga miyembro ng partylist nila, sana maranasan mo...tingnan natin kung gugustuhin mo ng ganyang media gimmick...try mo lang kaya, ala-extra challenge? sige na...

again tungkol sa pork barrel, tanungin mo muna cguro lahat ng constituents nila na nakikinabang kung okay lang sa kanila na mapunta sa ibang kurakot na pulitiko mga pera (na sa taong bayan naman talaga galing). Pag sinabi nilang okay lang, saka mo i-impose ang gusto mo sa batasan 6.

8:46 PM  
Anonymous Lumad sa Mindanao said...

To Pinoy (or his Noli incarnate),

Isa lang ang nakikita ko dito sa mga postings. Losing argument ka talaga.

Mahirap talaga gisingin ang taong gising at nagmamaang maangan. Tulad ka rin ni Bunye, 2 Gonzales (Raul & Norberto) at iba pa sa Malacanang.

Get lost lost ka na lang. Silent majority daw na hindi naman naniniwala sa sinasabi ng majority. Self-contradicting statements.

9:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

psssst pinoy aka noli...

may naghahamon ng debate dun sa page tungkol sa chacha at mining...

kaya mo ba yun...

bikolano daw eh... may kakamping taga hawaii na ilocano descent... puntahan mo bilis... tignan natin kung kaya mo yun.

lol!

9:18 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

CHANGE!!!! PAGBABAGO!!!!

Napakahirap ba intindihin nun? Sasabihing bulok ang sistema tapos sasabay sa agos ng sistema dahil may pakinabang? Pero kung walang pakinabang, sige lang sa pagtuligsa????

Mas lalu akong nagitla sa mga sinasabi ninyo. Tungkol sa mga humihingi sa kanila ng tulong para sa medical assistance, pagpagawa ng building, para irigasyon, etc. WOW!!! Talagang trapong trapo ang dating. Ano ang batayan ng pagpili kung sino ang bibigyan nila??? Napakaraming nangangailangan ng medical assistance, napakaraming nangangailangan ng paaralan, napakaraming nangangailangan ng irigasyon, sino ang uunahin nila? sino ang pagbibigyan nila? desisyong trapo yan.

yung kagyat na pakinabang kasi ang tinitingnan ninyo. yung pangmatagalan at makabuluhang pagbabago hindi na isinasaalang alang. kung hangad nila ng pagbabago, simulan nila sa mga sarili nila. kung di nila kaya iyon, hwag silang mag asta na parang may mga prinsipyo sila.

sino si noli me tangere? personal kong krusada ito. yan ang hirap sa ating mga pilipino. oras na taliwas sa pananaw nila ang sinasabi mo, babanatan ka ng personal. hindi harapin na lamang ng maayos yung isyu. kung hindi natin kayang magpakatao, kung hindi natin kayang magbago bilang tayo, kahit anong prinsipyo pa yang pinaglalaban ninyo, walang mangyayari sa bansa natin.

PAGBABAGO. yan ang hangad nating lahat. baguhin ang sistema. baguhin ang administrasyon. baguhin pa kung ano ano. pero kung tayo mismo ay hindi natin kayang magbago, walang magaganap na pagbabago. kung totoong pagbabago sa lipunan ang hangad ng batasan 6, ibahin nila ang mga sarili nila. tanggihan nila ang pork barrel. mahirap bang intindihin iyon?

9:44 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

I think your image of change is grossly distorted. Every John, Derick and Henry agree with you that we need change to make life better in this planet.

But am terribly Sorry to say this. Look at the big picture, man! Don't magnify small things to make them look big.

I now rest my case.

10:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

pssst pinoy,sayang di ka kasamama dun sa nakahilera sa dialysis center ng nkti,maintindihan mo sana kung bakit inaavail yang entitlement na yan.

10:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

pssst pinoy,sayang di ka kabilang dun sa mga nakahilera sa dialysis center ng nkti,maintindihan mo sana kung bakit inaavail yang entitlement na yan.PANGANGAILANGAN LANG HO NG MASA...

10:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SATUR et.al., ARE ALL TERRORIST.ACCORDING TO EUROPIAN AND U.S. GOVERNMENT. KAHIT SINO ANG PRESIDENTE SA PINAS, THEY'LL TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT SOONER OR LATER. THE PHILIPPINES WILL BE A COMMUNIST REPUBLIC LIKE CHINA. COMMANDER SATUR WILL BE FUTURE PRIME MINISTER AND JOSE MAOIST SISON IS THE SECRETARY OF NATIONAL DEFENSE. KA ROGER WILL BE THE CHIEF OF THE SECRET POLICE.

3:44 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous,ala namang binanggit ang us at eu na terrorista sina satur et al ah.Pambihira ka boy..san ka ba galing?

4:20 AM  
Anonymous Kiko said...

Joel, salamat sa virtual tour. Poetic yang kalagayan ninyo - katahimikan ng Batasan Complex sa gulong pumapalibot sa inyo.

Para kayong nasa isang malungkot na panaginip. Ang mga daing ninyo ay tunay, ngunit parang hindi naririnig.

Marahil ang pakikidamay ay tulong na rin, sapagkat and damdaming nakauunawa ay nagbibigay ng lakas sa pakikipagbaka.

Makasisiguro kayo na marami kayong kasama. Ang katotohanan ay laging nagwawagi.

6:08 AM  
Anonymous LITHIUM111 said...

http://www.bayanmuna.net/?p=216

Batasan 6 Timeline
Feb. 24

"Pres. Arroyo releases Presidential Proclamation 1017, declaring a state of national emergency, and General Order No. 5 calling on AFP and PNP to quell public dissent"

Here, Bayan Muna clearly acknowledged (approved, recognized, accepted) GMA as President Arroyo.

And hey, only a 'President' can issue a 'Presidential Proclamation', else it should be called "Mrs. Arroyo's Proclamation".

9:10 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

lithium ang bano mo talaga. Di ikaw na rin ang nagsabi na hindi totoong presidente si Gloria dahil ginawa mo na nga lang siyang non-person. "It" na lang as in "else it should be called blah blah blah!" Wrong pronoun ka na naman lithium. Mas masaklap ka pala. Kami di kami nagconcede na presidente siya pero tinuturing pa rin namin siyang tao. Ikaw, tinuturing siyang hindi tao. Ano siya ngayon? Tiyanak?

Sabi pa ni constantflux, lithium, anybody who has the guts to criticize the Left must have the brains to state his/her position clear with grammatical English.

Supalpal ka na naman lithium. Nasaan ba kasi editor mo?

9:25 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

huwag mong ipagmayabang yang english mo lithium kay hawaiian guy dahil academician pa la yun. Alam mo naman yung mga academician. Very rigid sa grammar at iba pang di ko maintindihan.

9:27 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

mag-erratum muna ako lithium ha para di ako kantyawan ni hawaiianguy.

Dapat doon: gramatically-correct English.

9:37 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Johndoe, Ok lang yang pinoy english sa atin. Maski nga kano, nagkakamali din sila ng english, hehehe! Ang importante yung correctness nang idea, o kaya ay ang basis nun. Yun nga lang, pag kano ang bumasa ng mali nating English, minsan tinatanong din nila sarili: Di ba tayo ang nagturo sa kanila ng english? hehehehe!

9:58 AM  
Anonymous john gabriel said...

Bayan Muna releases list of pork barrel beneficiaries
Apr. 07, 2004
Inquirer News Service

BAGUIO CITY -- The party-list group Bayan Muna has released its list of pork barrel beneficiaries in poverty-stricken areas of the Cordillera to dispute government allegations that it has been financing underground rebel operations.

The party-list group listed 673 projects worth 480 million pesos that it helped sponsor in provinces nationwide between August 2001 and December 2003, said Beverly Longid, a Bayan Muna nominee.

She said Bayan Muna Rep. Satur Ocampo and resigned legislators Crispin Belran and Liza Maza contributed to 467 "hard-impact" projects worth P352 million and 206 "soft" projects worth 127 million pesos.

Bayan Muna's projects had always been "an open book," but the party's chief critic, National Security Adviser Norberto Gonzales, "never took the time to even pore through Congress' books," Longid said.

She said Gonzales' attacks on Bayan Muna confirmed the military propaganda that that the party-list group had been financing rebel groups using the countryside development fund (CDF).

But according to the party's project registry, most of its CDF money was used in infrastructure projects like the 2.3-million-peso multi-purpose building in Barangay Gabriela Silang in Baguio City. It also helped build similar facilities for poor villages in Benguet.

Bayan Muna also funneled in 10 million pesos, alongside a CDF grant offered by Sen. Francisco Pangilinan, that helped concrete the Dantay-Dagada road in Mt. Province. It also spent one million pesos in putting up a community radio station in Sagada, Mt. Province.

The party also helped rehabilitate roads and flood control projects in the towns of Besao and Bontoc, also in Mt. Province, a 350,000-peso flood control project in Nambaan vilage, a 350,000-peso deep well for the villages of Dasao and Basao, and an 180,000-peso post harvest facility for Cabaruan town, all in Kalinga. -- Vincent Cabreza and Desiree Caluza, Inquirer Northern Luzon Bureau

12:55 PM  
Anonymous vinsoy said...

Bayan Muna releases list of pork barrel beneficiaries
Apr. 07, 2004
Inquirer News Service

BAGUIO CITY -- The party-list group Bayan Muna has released its list of pork barrel beneficiaries in poverty-stricken areas of the Cordillera to dispute government allegations that it has been financing underground rebel operations.

The party-list group listed 673 projects worth 480 million pesos that it helped sponsor in provinces nationwide between August 2001 and December 2003, said Beverly Longid, a Bayan Muna nominee.

She said Bayan Muna Rep. Satur Ocampo and resigned legislators Crispin Belran and Liza Maza contributed to 467 "hard-impact" projects worth P352 million and 206 "soft" projects worth 127 million pesos.

Bayan Muna's projects had always been "an open book," but the party's chief critic, National Security Adviser Norberto Gonzales, "never took the time to even pore through Congress' books," Longid said.

She said Gonzales' attacks on Bayan Muna confirmed the military propaganda that that the party-list group had been financing rebel groups using the countryside development fund (CDF).

But according to the party's project registry, most of its CDF money was used in infrastructure projects like the 2.3-million-peso multi-purpose building in Barangay Gabriela Silang in Baguio City. It also helped build similar facilities for poor villages in Benguet.

Bayan Muna also funneled in 10 million pesos, alongside a CDF grant offered by Sen. Francisco Pangilinan, that helped concrete the Dantay-Dagada road in Mt. Province. It also spent one million pesos in putting up a community radio station in Sagada, Mt. Province.

The party also helped rehabilitate roads and flood control projects in the towns of Besao and Bontoc, also in Mt. Province, a 350,000-peso flood control project in Nambaan vilage, a 350,000-peso deep well for the villages of Dasao and Basao, and an 180,000-peso post harvest facility for Cabaruan town, all in Kalinga. -- Vincent Cabreza and Desiree Caluza, Inquirer Northern Luzon Bureau

12:56 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

I condemn GMA for cheating in the last election. I believe she is not a legitimate president.

I condemn GMA for appointing retired generals to various government positions.

I condemn GMA for appointing Davide as our UN representative. There are younger career professionals who may be more eliegible.

I condemn GMA for saying that she will not run in the last election but did not keep her word.

I condemn the small town lottery as it emcourages the culture of gambling, the people's initiative as it is in fact Gloria's initiative and cha cha for it will be used by the trapos to perpetuate themselves in power.

I admire and respect the RED FIGHTERS for their courage, nationalism and sacrifice but I condemn the armed struggle.

I condemn the killing of journalists and members and organizers of BAYAN MUNA and other allied organizations.

I condemn the hypocrisy of the Batasan 6 for receiving the pork barrel which they opposed before.

I demand credibility and consistency from leadership. Is that too much to ask for?

1:03 PM  
Blogger Tonyo said...

Ka Satur has repeatedly said that Bayan Muna is for the abolition of the pork barrel. In fact, Bayan Muna solons as well as Liza Maza of Gabriela and Ka Paeng and Ka Bel of Anakpawis have repeatedly moved for the rechanneling of all pork barrel funds to vital social services. Unfortunately, their motions before the House appropriations committee always die a natural death, no thanks to the dominant trapo character in Congress.

The partylist representatives opted to exercise their privilege over PDAF allocations in order to stop the government from misusing said fund. As far as I know, unused PDAF funds go back to the Treasury where it can be used or misused for the most anti-people purposes.

COA reports as well as logs in the DBM are open to the public, including critics, so they could always probe into how the partylist representatives exercised their PDAF privileges. I mention this in response to the rather simplistic view that PDAF allocations are given in cash tranches. THIS IS UNTRUE. A quick call to the DBM would educate anyone that not a single peso in PDAF passes through the hands of a congressperson or senator. All PDAF projects are funded by SARO and NCA (all coming from the DBM) and are coursed through LGUs.

As of today, despite the repeated allegations that the Batasan 6 allegedly misused their PDAF, no charges have been filed against them by their accusers. What's worse is that some very unfair commentators who accuse the Batasan 6 of purported wrongdoing give the embattled solons the responsibility of disproving their wild claims.

Feeling or sensing that the Batasan 6 misused their PDAF allocations is one thing. Taking those feelings and kutob to court, proving each and every allegation, and winning in a fair and transparent proceeding is an altogether different matter.

1:07 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

Let me first clear that I never said that the PDAF of the Batasan 6 was misused. That is not my issue.

"The partylist representatives opted to exercise their privilege over PDAF allocations in order to stop the government from misusing said fund."

Now we're talking. I'm not buying the argument though. Do not exercise the privilege and make a big fuzz out of it. That wil truly make the headlines. They could create a snow ball effect. People will admire them more. Their detractors may become sympathetic to their cause. Their credibility will skyrocket. Their moral ascendancy will be of no question. But at this point, they have no right to talk about GMA's moral ascendancy to lead because they too have none of it.

1:37 PM  
Blogger Tonyo said...

to the person calling himself pinoy:

could you please explain how the batasan 6 lost all moral ascendancy by exercising their PDAF privileges towards social services, infrastructure and other propeople projects in a graft-free and transparent manner? how could there be a loss of moral ascendancy when, year in and year out, the batasan 6 have pressed for the pork barrel's abolition and its rechanneling to social services?

i merely responded to critics of the batasan 6 on two of their assailable views on pork barrel: its use by the batasan 6, and the purported misuse. i wrote my comment not just for you.

come election time, the people will again decide if parties of the batasan 6 have the moral ground to represent them in congress. but given the batasan 6' track record in elections in 2001 and 2004, and sans state violence and utterly baseless and unproven charges being parlayed as gospel truth, they are bound to win perhaps even more votes especially considering the arroyo govt's acts of persecution. many people view such acts as the price they pay for standing up to the immoral arroyo.

2:13 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

on dec. 30, 2002, gma said she will not run for the presidency come 2004 election. come election, she not only run, she cheated her way to the presidency.

on a lesser degree, the batasan 6 before they became party list representatives, called for the scrapping of the pork barrel. after gaining their seats in congress, they "exercised their so called privilege". the height of hypocrisy!

2:48 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Good point, Tonyo! Terms must first be settled before any fruitful discussion can proceed.

Now that Pinoy also raised the issue of moral ascendancy to lead, that's something worthwhile to talk about. Maybe Pinoy should first define what he means by that phrase. Then, we find out who has lost it, and why. I'm interested in hearing about the national leadership because of its centrality to all political issues.

This looks more interesting than the worn-out pork barrel he keeps on pigging out. Given the vast amount of arguments, I believe it is now settled (except his belief that his pesky, little question still awaits a response).

2:55 PM  
Anonymous Bloated Skyflakes said...

@Pinoy,

It is too simplistic to declare that by accepting their PDAF allocations, Bayan Muna has been completely co-opted by the system. Well, as someone already stated, if the party has allowed itself to be gobbled up by the rotten system, why then is it still the subject of a determined political repression campaign by the Arroyo administration? Perhaps their compromise -- if at all -- has not satisfied the regime to the point that the killings and assassinations of Bayan Muna's grassroots members and leaders by armed agents of the State should persist? Kung totoong nilamon na ang Batasan 6 ng sistema, bakit praning pa rin si GMA at pilit silang sinusupil? Being charged with "rebellion" is the least one would expect as a form of payback from an Enemy to whom you sold your principles to.

You said you voted for Bayan Muna twice. I assume you understood during those times the purpose and significance of the entry of a recognized activist organization in mainstream politics. However, saying that accepting the PDAF automatically makes it "trapo" is the same as saying that entering mainstream politics is already a terrible compromise on Bayan Muna's part. Kumbaga, "huwag ka nang kumandidato dahil bulok naman ang sistema at tiyak lalamunin ka rin niyan." If every activist (including former ones like you, as you so profusely claimed) or even the most socially-conscious of Filipinos would be under such an impression, then it would be best if we merely confined ourselves within our homes and not even consider venturing out, thinking that riding a jeepney for instance would be a great compromise on our part because we would be guilty of financing the capitalist oil companies, and consequently, wittingly supporting and propagating the exploitative system. And while we’re at it, let's stop purchasing our food because we are patronizing the products of foreign corporations anyway. Or better yet, let’s all live in caves where we can never be Meralco and Maynilad’s unwitting sources of profit.

This type of thinking (paranoia, actually) is extreme, and helps little in our collective efforts to even institute genuine changes. It deliberately disregards certain potentially positive gains for the masses once a “politically conscious” party such as Bayan Muna would be inside the system and ensuring (although in a still limited capacity) that the real “trapos” are not left to their own devices. Mas maigi pang nandyan sila sa “loob” kaysa wala. And its almost 5 years in Congress would show that Bayan Muna has not strayed from its original sworn commitment. Look at the bills and resolutions the party has filed (most, if not all of them, are languishing in the Lower House, despite clearly providing immediate relief and long-term benefits to the poor) as well as their positions on various political and economic issues. Its record and integrity cannot be challenged, except the so-called pork barrel issue, which has been blown out of proportions by critics in their misguided crusade to discredit the party.

Of course, you may argue that the “pork barrel” is essentially a gratuity fund. While mainly true, we must not discount the possibility that the fund’s handling may vary. Surely, it would be unfair to say that all those who handle government funds are corrupt since these funds are essentially “dirty.”

Nevertheless, Bayan Muna, I believe, is aware of the perceived nature of the PDAF, and has in the past publicly declared a firm position with regards its scrapping. It reiterates the call that the national government should be mainly responsible for the delivery of social services – a responsibility it has consistently but unsurprisingly reneged from.

Why then does Bayan Muna continue to accept the PDAF? Simply, because the funds are there, and because these exist, might as well make judicious, responsible use of it by ensuring that these are returned to the people as actual services. There are ample evidences showing that these funds have actually reached and benefited their intended recipients – the most deprived and in dire need of services. It’s clear that in no way have these funds been used for the personal aggrandizement of Bayan Muna’s officials. Looking at their lifestyles, have the Batasan 6 turned into the “trapos” we all despise? The answer is a resounding “No!”

And the so-called diversion of funds to the NPA? Bayan Muna’s books are open to the dissecting eyes of the public. The party’s disbursements are all in order and are easily verifiable in various government records. But the military establishment has issued these baseless and malicious allegations to unduly demonize Bayan Muna’s legitimate efforts.

You keep on harping that change must originate from ourselves. True. Although I would have to remind you that this demand is something best directed elsewhere (say GMA, for starters), not to those who have already made immense sacrifices in order to institute the very same changes you so “convincingly” aspire for.

3:01 PM  
Anonymous urban gulaman said...

Pinoy said...

"...on a lesser degree, the batasan 6 before they became party list representatives, called for the scrapping of the pork barrel. after gaining their seats in congress, they "exercised their so called privilege". the height of hypocrisy!"

How can something of a "lesser degree" be "the height of hypocrisy?" Please be consistent. Ooopsss...I forgot, such a plea was originally yours.

3:24 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

"huwag ka nang kumandidato dahil bulok naman ang sistema at tiyak lalamunin ka rin niyan."

that is not my point. i applauded them when they took the path of the ballot box. i voted for them twice. i am not saying that they should not run. yes, do join the election. but once in there, grab the opportunity. not the opportunity of the pork barrel but the opportunity to set the example. the opportunity to fight the system within the system. fighting the system is not simply marching in the streets, condemning acts of violence of the state but also setting the example and making sacrifices.

"helps little in our collective efforts to even institute genuine changes."
isn't refusing to take the pork barrel an effort to institute genuine change? we all want change. change has to start somewhere. batasan 6 has the opportunity to set the example. but they did not take that opportunity. they saw another kind of opportunity.

"Bayan Muna......has in the past publicly declared a firm position with regards its scrapping."

So it's, let's enjoy it while it lasts? Be consistent!!!! If they want it scrapped then don't accept it. They would rather use it, the lesser evil, than have the government use it, the greater evil. If its evil, its evil, period.

"Although I would have to remind you that this demand is something best directed elsewhere (say GMA, for starters)"
that is a totally different issue.

3:36 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

"How can something of a "lesser degree" be "the height of hypocrisy?" Please be consistent. Ooopsss...I forgot, such a plea was originally yours. "

I won't call BAYAN MUNA to be cheaters for I believe they are not but it is still hypocrisy to accept something you are fighting against.

3:39 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

Teka,teka. Lets make it clear.

Cheaters=no moral ascendancy to rule?
Hypocrisy=no moral ascendancy to rule?

Is that how you define those words?

4:47 PM  
Anonymous Bloated Skyflakes said...

@ Pinoy again,

I'm truly sorry that despite their clarity, the points continue to elude you (perhaps either due to sheer ignorance or worse some sort of incurable affliction that has rendered your consciousness incorrigible).

The answer you seek is found in your own words. And unless you consciously refuse to see it, you are beyond help. You've made the inference in previous posts but this is the closest you come to being accurate and straightforward:

"Seize the opportunity to fight the system within the system."

I could not have placed it more bluntly. I would even venture into paraphrasing it for you, in classic Orwellian speak, just to add more gravitas:

"Submerge to Subvert."

Fighting the system normally entails using the available resources the system has in order to expose and fight its vicious, unjust and exploitative character. And yes, you've guessed it, the PDAF is one of those resources. Now, before naysayers grab this opportunity to proclaim that "Finally, Bayan Muna admits to financing the NPA via PDAF," using the State's resources against it is not as explicit and unceremonious as that. Defiance against the government can be in the form of actually delivering the services to those who really need them, say the displaced communities of militarization and mining – the victims of State tyranny and plunder, those marginalized by the government’s neo-liberal policies. Anyway, I will not go into this in detail since you yourself have already conceded that Bayan Muna disbursed its funds appropriately and without irregularity. But if indeed you strongly believe this to be true, why persist on challenging the integrity of Bayan Muna in terms of accepting and using its PDAF? It doesn't make sense. If they haven't used the funds for personal gain, why charge them with corruption and compromise?

You triumphantly declare, in a sudden stroke of genius, that the pork barrell is EVIL. PERIOD. For the Nth iteration, do not resort to generalization and oversimplification. Well, Meralco and the Lopezes are evil. Does this mean we should not use electricity to power our computers which we use to write and disseminate our statements exposing GMA's poll fraud? The government is the devil incarnate, and therefore all dealings with it should be shunned. I assume you are aware of the questionable integrity of the COMELEC, but (fortunately) it did not preclude you from voting for Bayan Muna.

The point is, let's avoid harboring such a PURIST and EXTREMIST stance. It's like saying men are incapable of grasping gender equality simply because they are by tradition, pigheaded. Does political education and conscientization therefore become a futile cause? Activists have been complaining about Congress. And yet they opted to field candidates in Congress. But has it necessarily resulted to their co-optation? Has it led to their representatives' personal aggrandizement? Well, the Batasan 6 are not in a more comfortable position now than they were when they were still in the mass movement. If anything, their consistency and unbending conviction has earned them the full wrath of the regime.

I hope this will finally put your persistent question to rest.

4:53 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

Take your pick.

One question, on the thread we started discussing on morality to govern, and the other, on your pork barrel obsession.

(Bloated Skyflakes, Is your posting an obituary notice to the piggy issue? That should leave Pinoy just one question on the table, then.)

Wow, this gets more interesting.

5:16 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

To aid Pinoy in gathering his thoughts, here's my posting:

Cheaters=no moral ascendancy to rule?
Hypocrisy=no moral ascendancy to rule?

Is that how you define those words (morality to govern)?

5:46 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to tonyo:

"could you please explain how the batasan 6 lost all moral ascendancy by exercising their PDAF privileges towards social services, infrastructure and other propeople projects in a graft-free and transparent manner? how could there be a loss of moral ascendancy when, year in and year out, the batasan 6 have pressed for the pork barrel's abolition and its rechanneling to social services?"

they lost the moral ascendancy because they are not being consistent with their convictions. if they are for the scrapping of the PDAF, then refuse to take it even if it's there. as i keep saying, i am not questioning where the money was spent. it is the act of taking advantage of this privilege is what i condemn.

to hawaiinguy:

"Cheaters=no moral ascendancy to rule?
Hypocrisy=no moral ascendancy to rule?

Is that how you define those words? "

I would rather use the word lead than rule.


to bloated skyflakes:

"Fighting the system normally entails using the available resources the system has in order to expose and fight its vicious, unjust and exploitative character."

Agaw armas style? The enemy's loss is your gain.

If PDAF is a respurce, then why call for its scrapping???? Let put it the other way around. Why have something scrapped if it is considered as a resource? It is beyond my very limited comprehesion.

"But if indeed you strongly believe this to be true, why persist on challenging the integrity of Bayan Muna in terms of accepting and using its PDAF? It doesn't make sense. If they haven't used the funds for personal gain, why charge them with corruption and compromise?"

Where in my posts did I charge the Batasan 6 of corruption??? If you can re post that statement, if I ever made one, I will keep quiet and rest my case. Which makes me wonder if you are arguing my comments or someone else's. I only went as far as saying that PDAF is a symbol of corruption.

"Well, Meralco and the Lopezes are evil. Does this mean we should not use electricity to power our computers which we use to write and disseminate our statements exposing GMA's poll fraud? "

Such a convenient analogy. Electricity is a necessity so we have no choice but to use it. PDAF is not a necessity. We can live and exist without it. You cannot compare it with electricity. PDAF is a convenient way for legislators to have a share of the pie. They cannot exist without it.

"You triumphantly declare, in a sudden stroke of genius, that the pork barrell is EVIL."

If it is not evil, then why would the Batasan 6 call for its scrapping?

"The point is, let's avoid harboring such a PURIST and EXTREMIST stance."

Now this is a different argument. Is the call to refuse the PDAF extremism? Then so be it.

"But has it necessarily resulted to their co-optation? Has it led to their representatives' personal aggrandizement? Well, the Batasan 6 are not in a more comfortable position now than they were when they were still in the mass movement. "

Did I say anything to that effect? I never raised those issues.


"If anything, their consistency and unbending conviction has earned them the full wrath of the regime."

Now that is my issue. How can they be consistent if they want the PDAF scrapped and yet still take advantage of it? Is that what you call consistency? Is that what you call an unbending conviction? They have all the right in the world to refuse it if they truly have convictions.

"I hope this will finally put your persistent question to rest. "

Sorry to say but I am unconvinced.

Let me throw back the question I made in my previous post which you conveniently missed out.

isn't refusing to take the pork barrel an effort to institute genuine change?

6:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SATUR et.al., ARE FRONTLINE LEADERS OF THE UNDERGROUND MOVEMENT OF THE CPP-NPA TERRORIST GROUP IN OUR COUNTRY. THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY AND THE UNITED STATES STIPULATES THAT THEY ARE TERRORIST GROUP. THEY BOMB GOVERNMENT INFRASTRUCTURES LIKE TELEPHONE CELL SITES, HEAVY CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENTS FOR GOVERNMENT ROAD PROJECTS, AMBUSH OUR VERY OWN GOVERNMENT SOLDIERS, IMPOSE REVOLUTIONARY TAXES TO OUR HARD WORKING BUSINESSMEN TO PROMOTE THEIR ROTTEN CAUSE. THE CPP-NPA'S DOESN'T WANT PROGRESS TO ENSUE IN OUR GOVERNMENT SO THAT POVERTY WILL CONTINUE TO EXIST AND THEY WILL WIN THEIR TERRORISTIC ACTIVITIES. SATUR AND JOSE MAOIST SISON ARE THEIR FRONTLINE LEADERS.

8:42 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

now that above is one truly pathetic post. tanga lang ang papatul dyan.

9:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the United Nations does NOT list the CPP nor the NPA as terrorists. Norway declined to consider them terrorists, opting to follow the decision of the ENTIRE world, rather than obey the dictates of United States, which lists organizations and people without due process, and which has a history of McCarthyism. These lists are so undemocratic -- no one knows how one gets into them and there's no process for getting off them. If we're to obey the US listing, please be informed that the US also lists the Philippines as inadequate when it comes to human rights and trafficking.

9:24 PM  
Blogger Tonyo said...

"pinoy", i admire your tenacity in pushing your point but there are certain limits we have to contend.

the progressive partylist representatives wanted and moved for the abolition of pdaf. but the house didn't like the idea. i am sure that by the time progressives become the dominant force in congress, there would be no basis for pork.

but while the progressive bloc cannot by their lonesome abolish the pork barrel, there is wisdom in withholding the amount from a brazenly corrupt national government. the intention of the powers-that-be of using pork as a leverage to force solons to vote this or that way on certain measures does not hold water as far as progressives are concerned. they have not sold out, and would not, if we would base from their voting records.

yes, pork barrel is evil because it is a large-scale bribe of the executive and/or the majority. pero hindi naman nila nabribe ang mga progresibo.

the claim that the activist solons lost their moral ascendancy is, i am sorry to say, without basis. they have not sold out to the executive that controls pdaf releases. in fact, the executive treats them as its worst enemies in congress -- illegally arresting one of them, threatening the others with the same, slapping them with multiple complaints of rebellion, and so on.

as to your suggestion that they give up their pdaf allocations, i suppose the activist solons have other ideas other than yours. your stand may sound idealistic, but given the conditions prevailing in congress and in the entire government, the most prudent and therefore most correct stand is to show the nation how a government should wisely spend each valuable peso in public funds.

by the way, i am getting bored by the topic. it has been answered more than enough and at several occasions throughout this blog.

9:59 PM  
Blogger ptz821 said...

to pinoy...

butt in muna, kakarating ko lang eh.. dame trabaho... di gaya mo na kahit office hrs nagboblog. di ko pa nababasa mga comments since last night.

so far eto muna ang pasok ko.

"on a lesser degree, the batasan 6 before they became party list representatives, called for the scrapping of the pork barrel. after gaining their seats in congress, they "exercised their so called privilege". the height of hypocrisy!"

on the premise of "called for the scrapping of pork". It's true that they advocated it. okey! para matahimik ka lang at baka bangungutin ka pa. scrapping totally... yesssss indeed.

but using it wisely on honorable projects (and properly audited), as against to those members of the lowert(st) house who pocketed that public fund is a very, very different subject.

batasan 6 get into the "inside" to be a catalyst. alam mo ba ang catalyst? ha? nag chemistry ka ba? ha? o di na nakapagturo ang titser mo kasi hihndi pa napaswelduhan ng panahong yun.

in chmeistry, ang catalyst ang role nya ay magpabilis ng chemical process, kung maliit ang amount ng catalyst hindi kasing bilis ng inaasahang chemical process ang mangyayari lalo na kung super saturated ang kabuan ng gustong mong baguhin or pabilisin ang pagbabago. kahalintulad ng catalyst ang Bayan block ay kakaunti lang sa lower(st) house na kung saan saturated ng mga trapo at dinastiyang pulitikal.

pero may catalyst na mabangis ang epekto para mapabilis ang pagbabago sa loob lang ng maikling panahon. katulad din ng pinakabisang catalyst ang Bayan block party lists sa loob lamang ng pangalawang termino ay nakapag lunsad ng mga panukalang batas na syang magiging saligan para sa tunay na pagbabago ng lipunan. at nakapag pasa na rin ng ilang batas na pundamental para sa karapatan ng mga kababaihan laban sa internasyunal na trapiking ng prostitusyon sa loob lamang ng unang termino nito. ang bilis ng pagpanukala ng mga radikal na panukalang batas para sa pagbabago tulad ng pagbuwag sa dinastiyang pulitikal ay hindi kailanman magagawa ninumang pandistritong c(t)ongressman kahit pa sa loob ng limang daang taong pagkakaluklok sa posisyon.

kaya't wag kang magtaka, at lalo ka pang mag-inis at magsyentyemento kung bakit lumawak ang bisa ng catalyst n Bayan Muna, Gabriela, at AnakPawis dahil matindi ang bisa nila bilang pagbabagong pulitika. at isa pa, dapat lang na matakot ang malakanyang dahil next time, hindi lang catalyst na BM, Gab, A-Pawis kundi madadagdagan pa ng Migrante, AnakBayan (Kabataan), SuaraBangsaMoro, at iba pang sektor!

Pero mas bilib din ako sa kampo nina ate glued... sila din pinapabilis nila ang pagadami ng mga supporters ng Bayan block dahil sa pandarahas, persecution, execution, harassment sa mga myembro ng Bayan block at ng kanilang mga lider, at higit sa lahat ang mismong bulok na pamamalakad ng kanyang admin, pagbenta sa mga dayuhan at pagbusabos sa mga mamamayan.

ooopppsss... byernes ngayon. yare ka sagutin mo muna ang post ko... isang post mo pa lang ang nakita ko... malaki na babayaran mo sa kuryente or sa i-cafe, i-ba-vat ka, mag sta-starbucks ka pa para magising pero i-ba-vat ka ulit... bukas paggising mo
magbubukas ka ulit ng pc kung nasa bahay ka... ganun pa rin kuryente na naman... e-vat na naman... hehehe... vat vat vat vat vat vat...

ano? labas na! sama na sa martsa sa Mayo uno... dun wlang vat... meron dun live na makaka debate... hehehe... kaya mo?

10:11 PM  
Blogger ptz821 said...

To pinoy!!!

"Now we're talking. I'm not buying the argument though. Do not exercise the privilege and make a big fuzz out of it. That wil truly make the headlines. They could create a snow ball effect. People will admire them more. Their detractors may become sympathetic to their cause. Their credibility will skyrocket. Their moral ascendancy will be of no question. But at this point, they have no right to talk about GMA's moral ascendancy to lead because they too have none of it."

NOW WE'RE TALKING TOO!!! eto pala ang last statement mo mula ng last akong magcheck kagabe dito sa page na to. sa dame ng bumogbog syo dto s dbate eto pala ang dulo... pakutos din!

ang gusto mo pala eh ganito, mag ala ate glued sa intensity ng press release kapag tinanggihan ng batasan6 ang PDAF at hayaan na lang na mapunta ke tongressman ang buwis ng bayan! at mag self declared saint sa larangan ng pulitika sa atin? si lacson ba nung tinanggihan ang PDAF naging santo sa paningin ng mga tao?

"They could create a snow ball effect." tsk... tsk... tsk... sick logic again! nung si Joker Arroyo ba ng tinanggihan ang pork nong nasa kamara pa lang snow ball effect ba sa mga kabatch nya sa kamara noon? parang di ko yata narinig na kahit 10% or 5% ng congressman noon eh tumanggi sa pork! baka ikaw alam mo yung balitang yun? bat walang engrandeng press release para mabalitaan ng sambayan? wala!

"Their detractors may become sympathetic to their cause. Their credibility will skyrocket." anong logic ba to??? at sinong detractor noon ni joker ang naging sympathizer nya? SINOOOO??? mas maganda cguro kung tinanggap na lang ni joker yun at ng mas naparame pa nya ang constituents na natulungan nya sa kanyang mga projects at scholarships!

"Their moral ascendancy will be of no question. But at this point, they have no right to talk about GMA's moral ascendancy to lead because they too have none of it."
ahh ibang usapan to pinoy. At kailan pa naging questionable ang morality to lead, to represent ng batasan6. give one proof ng kinabulok ng kanilang morality to represent? baka sabihin mo yung mga kasong binabato ni (in)justice sec. zuhl gonzales.

... may hamon ako syong debate dun sa mining at chaha issue. di mo pa yata sinagaot eh...

10:51 PM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

pinoy,

ipost ko dito ha itong sagot ko sa iyo doon sa isang thread para maishare sa mga ksama:


"ano ang batayan mo para sabihing nagkukunwari ako?"

"can't you just say it straight? what is it that I claim that I am but I am not?"

your previous posts pinoy. I find your position on the mining issue uncharacteristic of a BM supporter twice over. Next was your question, "kung majority kayo bakit hindi nyo pa napatalsik si Gloria?" I take that as a clue on which side of the fence you are. In your first few salvos, you also challenged the Batasan6 to come out which to me parrots the Gonzales-Lomibao line. If you want to disabuse me from such estimation, you are free to explain.

Second, I can not understand why the pork barrel issue remains a festering bug in your head when you claim you had voted BM twice. BM took their seats and started getting their share of the pork barrel in 2001. If your claim were true, I would imagine that you had gotten over it when you voted BM the second time in 2004. Otherwise, if the issue was so incongruous to your vote for being a deeply-seated conviction, you would not have cast your ballot for BM. You would have settled your scores with BM in 2004.


"ikinalulungkot ko pero hindi weapon ang pananaw ko sa pork barrel. para sa inyo armas ito. pero kumg armas ito, baka ipinapanawagan ninyo na ibasura ito?"

the PDAF as I see it pinoy can be likened to a knife on the table. In the hands of a killer, it will be used for murder. In the hands of a doctor, it can be used for surgery. The first can be likened to traditional politicians who use their PDAF to enrich themselves. The second can be likened to BM and other PPL which use it for genuine development projects.

"eh di inamin nyo rin. na paghakot pala ng boto ang pakay ninyo. hindi yung bibili kayo ng boto kundi yung tipong titiyakin na ang mga proyekto na pagkakagastusan ay maghahatid ng mas maraming boto. trapong trapo pa rin. noong manalo ang sina Ka Satur, Ka Bel at Liza noong una silang lumahok, may pork barrel ba sila noon para makakuha ng boto?
my basis?"

What is BM to do when someone from Pangasinan comes to them and ask for help for his ailing child? Drive them away and tell them to go to rabbit-eared de Venecia so BM would lose their vote and they would vote JDV for prime minister?

BM areas are under attack from all fronts of the reaction, both ideologically, politically and militarily. If you would not put any BM-initiated infrastructure there, BM will become vulnerable to government and military propaganda that "it is doing nothing for the masses". If you would not put any project there, it creates a vacuum that will be filled up by GMA's own pork barrel and herd the masses away from BM. I concede that there is an element of pragamtism in the acceptance of pork barrel but at this juncture, it is political naivete to forfeit it to the trapos.

11:57 PM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

pinoy,

"But at this point, they have no right to talk about GMA's moral ascendancy to lead because they too have none of it."

I'm sorry. I can't buy that comparison pinoy! Very unfair and lacking the proper premise to warrant such conclusion. When Gloria turned her back on her promise not too run, it was for selfish political motives. You can not say the same thing for BM.

12:10 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

Back to your original posting and recent comments. This is just to simplify what we read from your complicated analysis. You mean -

HYPOCRISY=NO MORAL ASCENDANCY TO LEAD (Batasang6)is the same as
CHEATING=NO MORAL ASCENDANCY TO LEAD? (GMA)

Pakisagot lang, YES or NO?

3:59 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Hey guys,

Just read yesterday's papers about SC's decision on EO 464, and the frightening scenarios for GMA.

I can smell the stench of GMA's MORALITY TO LEAD finally emitting nationally. When a ruler loses it, he/she loses the right to stay in power. Those scams (fertilizing the votes of GMA, North Railway & bulldozing the squatters who live there, etc.), including the most pungent "Hello Garci" tapes will soon open the larger Pandora's box.

With EO 464 out of the way, Biazon and Drilon are more than happy to re-open the can of worms that Garci and GMA have been desperately trying to hide from public scrutiny for long. No amount of Malacang/congressional coverups and suppression of truth will prevent GMA'S ILLEGITIMATE REGIME from being exposed.

Once the Supreme Court shoots down the legality of Proc. 1017, and the people's (read: Malacanang's)initiatives, GMA and her minions are FINISHED.

To Pinoy,

Ano? Still clinging on to your pigged-out pork barrel issue? or to your illogical comparison of moral ascendancy to lead? Tons of explanations here have already inundated your futile logic.

I clearly see that PTZ, Johndoe, Tonyo, Bloated Skyflakes finally sealed off your logic's coffin with the last nail. Tsk tsk tsk. WAKE UP,MAN!

5:41 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Guys,

Pardon me sa sunod-sunod kong postings. Kasi gising na ako dito sa Hawaii, samantalang tulog pa kayo diyan, hehehe!

Pwde ba, ibang topic naman, pls. Purga na ko dito sa pork. I think we have learned enough about it, except for one guy. Iba namang putahe. (Pinoy, kung me tanong ka pa sa pork mo, siguro mg-email ka na lang kina Ka Satur, ok? Alam na ng lahat yang sinasabi mong crusada mo.)

Maganda yung sinabi ni PTZ tungkol sa cha-cha, o kaya ay ang people's initiative. Call ako niyan. Kung gusto sumali ni Pinoy at yung mga katsokaran niya, ok din. Baka pwede natin uli i integrate sa usapan yung moral ascendancy atbp. Sana mabuhay si Noli (kung hndi siya si Pinoy). Mas mabuti yun para masaya at hindi maging monologue ang labas.

At yun sanang mga anonymouses, magpakilala naman kayo dito. Talakayang sibil naman ito sa tingin ko.

Teddy atbp. sa Batasan6, paki iba naman po ang thread.

6:18 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

pinoy,

may isa pang punto na hindi ko pala nasagot. Yung hinggil sa benefit.

Akala ko ano nang benepisyo ang maipresenta mo na nakuha nila. Akala ko sabihin mong lumaki ang bahay ni ganito at ganoon. Yun lang pala! At nagpoot na ang dibdib mo sa libreng propaganda na nakuha ng BM, Anakpawis at Gabriela?

Akala ko ba dati kang aktibista who understands the value of propaganda.
BM is part of a movement which is attacked relentlessly by reaction, a situation that is comparable to a kid fighting Big Brother. Hindi mo maconcede yan sa BM and other PPLs as part of defending itself by turning the table against its tormentors?

6:32 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

hawaiianguy,

don't underestimate the man. I'm sure he will come out smoking in the ears arguing that the world is flat. So don't change that channel!

6:33 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

tama ka hawaiianguy para uusad naman tayo. Maiba naman. Kung babalik si pinoy, harapin na lang natin siya kung may bago siyang punto. Actually, itong thread na ito na hinggil sa cha-cha is a burning issue by itself na dapat himaymayin. Maganda seguro kung pangunahan ni tonyo na siyang nagpasimuno nitong lahat para mahimayhimay iyan.

Nasaan ka tonyo?

6:52 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to tonyo:

i believe you are one of the more decent posters in here. and yes, we believe what we want to believe. we both agree that the pork barrel is evil. how we treat this evil is where we differ. at least there is something we can agree on. enough consolation for me.

let me engage you in another discussion in the other topic which I believe will be as passionate, if not even more, as this one.

i have said my piece. you have made yours. let's leave it to that.


to ptc publicwindow:

please do not lecture me on "catalyst". it will not help your case trying to project an "I am more intelligent than you are" image. just stick with the issue raised.

to johndoe:

you attributed to me issues and statements I never made. don't be too narrow minded that me and another poster is just one person. i never raised the issue of mining nor did I ask "kung majority kayo bakit hindi nyo pa napatalsik si Gloria?" nor did I challenge the Batasan 6 to come out. an apology will be proper. that is if you have manners which I don't see in your posts.

when 2004 election came the issue of port barrel wasn't that hot, at least for the party list. there is that thing called the benefit of the doubt. and there were just three of them then. during the campaign in 2004, i saw that they fielded many groups allied to BM. i said to myself, nice strategy. in fact, it is an excellent strategy to be able to mazimize the number of people they can send to congress. so it happened. good for them. but when i counted the number of party list representative they have and multiply it by P70million, the figure then for the pork barrel. wow! that's a lot of money. it is in this light that i started questioning the morality of accepting this pork barrel. i started having this suspicion na pera pera lang pala ang labanan.

again, i will reiterate my point that i am not raising the issue of where the money was or is being spent. unfortunately, you keep on bringing it up to justify the use of the pork.

i will engage you on a debate on that one if i have the facts. without it, everything is hearsay.

My issue here is more of a challenge to the Batasan 6. I challenge them not to take advantage of the privilege. Make a sacrifice. Take a risk. Be an example. Initiate change. At the end of the day, I hope my detractors will realize that mine are constructive criticisms.

to hawaiianguy:

you do have a fixation on that "moral ascendancy" thingie. well if i makes you all guys happy, i take back my word. it is wrong for me to equate the issue of moral ascendancy of GMA to lead against the moral ascendancy of the batasan 6 with regards to the pork barrel. happy now?

8:11 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to johndoe:

"Yun lang pala! At nagpoot na ang dibdib mo sa libreng propaganda na nakuha ng BM, Anakpawis at Gabriela? "

ang punto ko, nagpaka trapo na rin sila.

8:28 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to johndoe:

"tell them to go to rabbit-eared de Venecia so BM would lose their vote and they would vote JDV for prime minister?"

yes, tell him to go to devenecia and convince him also not to vote for de venecia come election. how you will convince that voter is BM's problem. unfortunately, they'd rather take the short cut route. help the poor guy so they get his vote.

"If you would not put any BM-initiated infrastructure there, BM will become vulnerable to government and military propaganda that "it is doing nothing for the masses"."

Crap. Without the pork barrel, BM got three seats in 2001. In 2004, they got more seats probably with the help of the pork from the three. Now, they have almost half a billion at their disposal, chances are they could even double their number now by fielding more groups. BM truly benefits from the pork. They call for its scrapping when all along they know that they don't have the numbers. So pa pogi points lang. If their call for the scrapping of the pork is truly a principled one, they should not take it altogether.

9:14 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

By now, am wondering what kind of person you are. Your obsessive thinking on pork and the way you look at behaviors (traponess, hypocrisy, blah blah), appear to be incoherent, misplaced, and lacking in logic, and approaching stupidity.

Am sorry to say this, but that’s my conclusion after spending so much time listening to and participating in this discussion, which you don’t consider as a "debate" (“am not here to debate”). So, what is? With all these discussions, where you insistently argued your losing case, assailing point by point those ideas hurled against your weak position?

It is you who are fixated on the morality issue, almost always starting on a thread by throwing a moral question (Pork is evil - “bakit tinanggap ninyo, nilamon na rin ba kayo ng sistema”), and keeping it afloat all the way in every discussion. If you forget or don’t believe in what you say, just ask fellow bloggers(unless you reverse yourself about your belief in “majority”). I was just provoked to respond to you, after others did, because of your pesky questioning about accepting and using pork. Good, you conceded on the folly of your “moral ascendancy” logic in recent posting. But without the word "ascendancy," morality is still central to almost all you said without using that word, but nonetheless referring to all evil or its opposite. (trapo, hypocrisy, crusade, etc.). Reminds me of GMA’s Proc. 1017, which is clearly a de facto martial law even without mentioning it. Calling it “emergency rule” never deflected the essence of martial law.

By taking on a "personal crusade," you proclaim yourself as a moralist. Aren't you one?

12:52 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Hi all,

Bored na si Tonyo sa pork, lalo na ako (sumo na kaayo ang baboy), at seconded by many.

Why don't we move on to another? Gusto ninyo mg cha-cha tayo? Basta huwag lang pig dance.

1:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello, bago lang po ako
dito sa blog na ito, nag-expect
ako na mag-reply doon sa post
na discovering batasang complex

tapos binaboy lang nung pinoy
at mga katulad niya ng mga
irrelevant post

ang cheap cheap mo pinoy and
likeminded cheap dogs

sana sa ibang forum ka na lang
manggulo or magmasturbate ka na
lang

world peace

3:58 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Anonymous, welcome to the club!

Huwag kang magtaka sa mga supalpalan dito. Pero kung i review mo yung mga comments dito, ang pinakamabahong basura nanggagaling dun sa bunganga ng mga bumabatikos sa Batasan6, na walang ibang masabi na wala namang sapat na batayan kundi "mamundok na lang kayo," "mg cooperate na lang kayo sa gobyerno para umunlad tayo," huwag kayong panay ingay sa kalye," "oppose ng oppose wala namang alternative," "mga pulpol kayo at ang ogag na liders ninyo," "ibagsak ang komunista," blah blah.

Sila pa ang palamura. Kala siguro nila sila lang ang may karapatang pangtao.

1:23 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

Pinoy:

Hindi na kita sasagutin dahil wala ka namang bagong punto. But let me sum up my points. I know now where you are coming from. You treat the pork barrel issue in isolation from all other factors that must be considered for BM and other PPLs to fight the lions' in their own den so you could launch an attack that would shear BM and other PPLs but not the lions. Yours is a strategy of defeat for BM, a track which you thinly covered by simply saying "how you will convince that voter is BM's problem". This is not to mention that by treating it as an absolutely and purely moral issue in isolation of other considerations, you are actually floating in the clouds, way way far from the harsh realities on the ground.

So just for the audience of this debate to get our position clear, let this bell ring:

BM and other PPLs have not abandoned their critique of pork barrel as a source of corruption. Their demand for its abolition remains but pending the passing of objective conditions that will buttress its abolition, they might as well take their share and put it into good use. To reject it at THIS point given the adversities of the political environment is naive and quixotic. They might as well err MOMENTARILY on the side of the masses.

Now, to the matter at hand. You accused me of attributing to you statements you did not make and demanded for my apologies? Such apology is not forthcoming pinoy. It should come from the guy whose hand was caught in the cookie jar.

What did I say? I said you can't possibly be someone who voted BM twice over because your previous posts belie such claim. They reveal a mind uncharacteristic of a BM supporter. Now, you deny them and want my apologies? Here they are pinoy:

on the mining issue:

“Bakit naman po nasabi natin na ang Natural resources dito sa Pilipinas eh para sa mga Pilipino lang dapat. Kung Ganyan po lahat ang sasabihin ng ibang bansa baka po naglalakad pa rin tayo dahil hindi nahukay ang mga oil deposits sa Middle East. Di ba ho yung Malampaya sa Palawan eh nagbibigay na ng Tax sa Pinas. Kung hihintayin pa po natin na Pinoy ang huhukay dun baka di na po uso ang langis kapag bago natin magawa. At ano man pong batas ang ilagay natin para kontrahin yan e gagawa rin po ng paraan ang ibang tao para kunin yan at may kasama pang corruption.”

On challenging the B5 to come out:

"Bakit di kase kayo lumabas dyan: Kung talagang para sa Bayan kayo edi magpakulong kayo. Aftel all tiyak meron kayong VIP treatment. Alam nyo sa ginagawa nyo na yan pinapakita nyo lang na takot kayong harapin si GMA."

on ridiculinhg the ND forces for not having ousted Gloria:

"Kung kayo ang majority edi sana napatalsik nyo na Gloria. Ni nga kayo maka-gather ng 50,000 rallyist eh.
Marami nga gusto patalsikin si Gloria kaso marami rin na iba-iba ang manok na dala.Kaya yung more than 50% na yan eh watak-watak dinyan. Marami dyan Erap..eh pano yan..di ba pinatalsik din nyo si Erap.. kung ibalik kaya natin..siguro magulo pa rin..kase marami rin ang di masaya. Siguro nga ganito na lang tayo, walang katapusang gulo.."

You are on a moral crusade, you say? Can you include this in your list: Its a sin to tell a lie!

2:57 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Johndoe,

You nicely put it! Now we can bury those silly ideas of Pinoy on pork and morality issues. But he can still participate in other threads. This is what animates democracy. Provided he makes sense and enlightens, rather than fingerpoints people and obfuscates issues.

Am really pissed off hearing incongruous , self-cancelling, pretentious, out of syn/piece-meal analysis, badmouthing arguments.

3:29 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to johndoe:

"They might as well err MOMENTARILY on the side of the mass."

So it is an admission. To err is to err is to err. Be it now, be it tomorrow, be it MOMENTARILY. Ang dami kasing palusot. Kesyo it is a resource. Kesyo it is a weapon. Someone in your group admitted that it is indeed evil. And now you use the word err. NO explanation was given. They are all excuses.

"Such apology is not forthcoming pinoy."

As I said in my previous post, with your manner which is reflected on the way you post, I don't expect it anyway.

"They reveal a mind uncharacteristic of a BM supporter."

That is the problem with your group. Masyadong kayong de kahon. One for all and all for one. Members have no right to question orders coming from HO. It is always from top going down. This is the cause of the major split of the left. Certain groups refuse to be dictated by the higher committee. And what is left of the left? Still struggling. Pupuga puga pa rin.

"Its a sin to tell a lie! "

HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT I AM A LIAR!!!! From where did you get those statements that you quoted? Did you see posted by pinoy???? I never made those remarks. I just read them now. Masyado talagang malaki ang problema ng grupo ninyo. Masyado kayong one track mind. Masyado kayang nagpapadala sa mga "pag aaral" na yan. By merely questioning the use of pork barrel, you automatically attribute to me statements opposed to your group. What kind of logic is that? Pathetic. I am sorry to say that I am not the only one in this world who criticizes your group. Buti nga ako bumoto sa BM. Marami dyan, as in marami, hinding hindi matatanggap na ang grupo ninyo ang mananaig. Sisimulan ko na sa AKBAYAN at SANLAKAS na kung tutuusin ay mga makakaliwa rin. Hwag nyong sabihing mas marami kayo dahil hindi iyon ang punto. Eh pano pa yung mga nasa gitna at kanan? Di na kayo natuto.

Porke't ibinoto ko ang BM wala na akong karapatang pumuna? At sa pagpuna kong ito babansagan mo akong sinungaling? Bilog ang mundo. Napaka dogmatic nyo kasi.

Sa pagtatapos dekada 80, maraming pumuna sa pamamalakad ng ND. Awa ng dyos, nasa hukay na sila ngayon. Pinaghinalaang mga ahente. Hindi na kayo natuto. Hanggang ngayon ganun pa rin ang takbo ng mga pag iisip ninyo. Bawal pumuna. Kailangang sumunod lang ng sumunod sa mga direktiba. Pagkatapos ng pagkilos, doon na lang mag csc. (Siguro naman alam mo kung ano ang csc. Kung hindi magtanog ka dyan sa mga katabi mo.) Hindi pwedeng punahin ang kautusan. Dahil dito, tumiwalag ang isang grupo at nagtayo ng AKBAYAN. Tumiwalag ang ABB sa central committee. Isang grupo din sa Negros ang tumiwalag. Dahil ayaw nila ang sistemang lahat ng kautasang galing sa taas ang laging masusunod.

Napakaliit na isyu, pork barrel, pero sumasalamin sa kabuktutan ng kilusan ninyo.

Marami pa akong isyu. Pero ganun pa man, BM pa rin ang ibinoto ko. Dahil alam kong sinsero kayo sa hangad ninyong pagbabago. Na sinsero kayo na mapabuti ang kalagayan ng masang pilipino. Na nagsasakripisyo kayo alang alang sa sambayanang Pilipino. Tspos, dahil sa isang puna, babansagan ninyo akong sinungaling???

Napakalaki ng problema ninyo. Napakakitid ng pag iisip ninyo. Kahit pagtulung tulungan nyo pa ako, di ako matitinag. Kahit magkampihan pa kayo. Iyang ganyang ugali ninyo ang maghihila sa inyo pababa. Nangyari ito noong 1986 nang mag boykot kayo sa snap election. Nangyari ito noong pinagpapatay ninyo ang mga kasamahan ninyo. Di malayong mangyari ito uli.

7:35 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiianguy:

"Your obsessive thinking on pork.... appear to be incoherent, misplaced, and lacking in logic, and approaching stupidity. "

To your group it appears that way because you refuse to look at the other point of view.


"Am sorry to say this, but that’s my conclusion "

No apology needed. We are all entitled to our opinions.

"It is you who are fixated on the morality issue"

In my previous post, in response to johndoe, I have raised the level to policy issue.

"you conceded on the folly of your “moral ascendancy” logic "

It wasn't so hard to admit one's mistake. I will admit my mistake if I am convinced. With regards to the pesky pork, sorry, but I am unconvinced. All you have are excuses.

"By taking on a "personal crusade," you proclaim yourself as a moralist. Aren't you one?"

It may be interpreted that way but personally, this is more about consistency and credibility. As I said, I have now raised the issue to the level of policy formation/implementation.

8:02 AM  
Blogger ptz821 said...

Gud am pinoy.

gusto ko na ring tapusin tong pagsgot sayo sa issue ng pork gaya ng marame dito. nakakarindi ka na rin kasi eh, di mo maintindihan ang simpleng punto namin.

pero una, ibig sabihin tanggap mo at conceded ka na "catalyst" nga ang Batasan6 sa loob ng current political arena. Or. talagang di mo alam ang ibig sabihin ng "catalyst" kahit 3rd year high school student alam ang ibig sabihin nyan. so, wala na akong magagawa dyan, i rest my case. recommend ko na lang bili ka ng promil, baka sakali lang.

Pinoy, mismo kameng mga constituents sasabihin namin na tanggapin ng Batasan6 ang kanilang PDAF, bakit... kasi kailangan namin, kailangan namin ng health cliniic, clasrooms, farm to market roads, scholarships etc, kagaya din ng lahat ng constituents ng district representatative. Kasi ulit, mis-appropriated ang budget natin taun-taon, alam mo naman yun di ba? Na mas malaki ang appropriation ng foreign debt kessa sa social services, infrastructure, etc. So kahit sina cardinal santos, cardinal sanchez at rosales maging congressman next year, ipag lalaban ko rin na tanggapin nila ang pork hanggat misappropriated ang budget. nakuha mo na?

kahit wag n pinoy, hindi na ko sasagot syo. talo ka pa ng 3rd yr high school eh, alam ang ibig sabihin ng catalyst.

9:08 AM  
Blogger ptz821 said...

pinoy dugtong ko lang.

" kasi kailangan namin, kailangan namin ng health cliniic, clasrooms, farm to market roads, scholarships etc,"

emphasize ko na bukas ang record ng house para suriin kung saan nagamit ang pork, minsan punta k s PUP mayrun dung building na pinatayo ng BM, ginagamit ng mga estudyante, saka kung may pasyente makisakay ka dun sa ambulansya na sinasabi mo, pedeng ikaw na rin, itakbo ka sa mental... ano aba address mo? request namin na sunduin ka at dalhin sa mandaluyong.

9:14 AM  
Blogger ptz821 said...

to pinoy ulit.

"As I said, I have now raised the issue to the level of policy formation/implementation."

Ng ano? ng pork ba? ng ano Pinoy?

Policy formation and implementation ba? si tonyo makakasagot sayo nyan kung tungkol sa policy formation/information na yan ng BM. supporter lang ako ng BM at bilang supporter nakikita kong walang mali sa policy nila na ipaglaban kameng walang boses sa politika sa loob mann o labas ng House of Representatives.

Kung policy formation and implementation ng NDF or CPP, wag ka magtanong dito, nagkakamali ka ng kinakaholan, dun ka kay Ka Roger direktang magtanong, wag dito.

9:27 AM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

Pinoy:

Hindi ko alam kung mayroon bang ibang blogger na nagdadala ng same na addie mo. But I clicked the addie and it leads to the same blogspot of yours.

On the spot Charter Change and mining issue, you posted this:


Pinoy said...
Bakit naman po nasabi natin na ang Natural resources dito sa Pilipinas eh para sa mga Pilipino lang dapat. Kung Ganyan po lahat ang sasabihin ng ibang bansa baka po naglalakad pa rin tayo dahil hindi nahukay ang mga oil deposits sa Middle East. Di ba ho yung Malampaya sa Palawan eh nagbibigay na ng Tax sa Pinas. Kung hihintayin pa po natin na Pinoy ang huhukay dun baka di na po uso ang langis kapag bago natin magawa. At ano man pong batas ang ilagay natin para kontrahin yan e gagawa rin po ng paraan ang ibang tao para kunin yan at may kasama pang corruption.
3:00 PM

Ayan may oras pa yan.

Sa blog na “GMA may have balls but no heart and soul”, you posted this (sinama ko yung ibang posts na nakipag-engage sa iyo para hindi mo masabi na guniguni ko lang yan at may oras din yan sa pagpost mo):


Anonymous said...
Keep on fighting, Teddy!

This government is really scared of you. There is no other explanation for the fabricated complaints against your group. They filed the complaints just so you could all be jailed and silenced. Nevermind due process, basta lang mapatahimik kayo.
12:52 PM
Pinoy said...
Bakit di kase kayo lumabas dyan.Kung talagang para sa Bayan kayo edi magpakulong kayo. Aftel all tiyak meron kayong VIP treatment. Alam nyo sa ginagawa nyo na yan pinapakita nyo lang na takot kayong harapin si GMA.
3:30 PM
vinsoy said...
Kung ikaw kaya ang nasa sitwasyon ng Batasan 6 kung saan binabalahura ang due process at binabastos ng mga taga-DOJ at PNP-DIDM-CIDG ang mga demokratikong prinsipyo ng ating bansa, ikaw ba'y magpapahuli na alam mong walang hustisya at batayan na hulihin ka?

Hindi lumalaban si GMA sa pantay na paraan at sa tamang larangan. Gumagamit (hindi, umaabuso) siya sa kapangyarihan laban sa mamamayan.

Sana matauhan ka naman
4:28 PM


amberashes said...
huwag nyo ng banggitin si noli dahil nandoon na siya sa beach ngayon, inilibing ang kanyang ulo sa buhangin parang ostrich. Marunong rin pala mahiya ang loko pagkatapos malantad ang kanyang pagkunwari na expert siya sa batas.
7:28 PM


Sa the same blog GMA has no balls, you also posted this one at may oras din yan:

Pinoy said...
Kung kayo ang majority edi sana napatalsik nyo na Gloria. Ni nga kayo maka-gather ng 50,000 rallyist eh.
Marami nga gusto patalsikin si Gloria kaso marami rin na iba-iba ang manok na dala.Kaya yung more than 50% na yan eh watak-watak dinyan. Marami dyan Erap..eh pano yan..di ba pinatalsik din nyo si Erap.. kung ibalik kaya natin..siguro magulo pa rin..kase marami rin ang di masaya. Siguro nga ganito na lang tayo, walang katapusang gulo..
4:22 PM

Anonymous said...
pinoy,

anjan na naman yang red herring argument nyo mga pro-GMA! Ibang level of unity ang kailangan sa pagpatalsik kay Gloria. And that level of unity is congealing. Di pa tapos ang laban kaya huwag kang magsalita ng tapos.
2:04 AM

Hindi ko gawa-gawa yan Pinoy. Kung baga sa plenary session ng Congress, on the record iyan. Nakatala sa journal. All you have to do is read it. Ngayon idedeny mo pa ba?

Actually, marami ka pang sinabi Pinoy dito at sa blogspot mo na para sa akin ay hindi characteristic ng isang taong nagclaim na ibinoto niya ang BM. Hindi ko na lang isama pa dahil sayang ang webpage.

Isa lang ang punto ko Pinoy. Pumasok ang BM sa parliamentary arena hindi para magpatiwakal lang. Para sa akin, the mere thought na sa isang baryo ngayon sa Samar, na kelanman hindi nabisita ng kanilang kongresista mula noong panahon ng kupong kupong, mayroon ng MPB at rice granary ngayon ang mga mamamayan doon; the mere thought na mayroong isang AIDS victim na natulongan ng BM and now having his periodic medication at NKTI, all these are to me enough vindication of the tactical correctness of BM’s acceptance of the pork.

Ewan ko sa ibang kasama Pinoy. Pero sa akin, I have no beef na pinupuna mo ang BM. Ang bone of contention ko sa iyo ay yung iyong false claim which you used para sumbatan ang BM.

Take it from me Pinoy. Mabuhay ka! At one time or another, you provided some of the most animating posts in this blog and you showed some mind. Hindi kagaya jan ng ibang pro-Gloria posters who merely mouth “anti-left” lines which sometimes drive me to my lumpen-prol ways.

9:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mabuhay ka pinoy!

mas lalo mo lang pintalas at pinapatunayang nasa tamang landas ang laban ng batasan6!

nandyan na ba aubulansya? hehehe!
may nag-a-antay naring doktor sa'yo!

11:02 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to ptz_publicwindow:

bata ka pa. marami ka pang kakaining bigas. masyado pang mababaw at hilaw ang pagkakapaloob mo sa kilusan. marami ka pang di nalalaman. si tonyo, yun halatang malalim na ang naging papel nya sa kilusan. naiintindihan ko kung mga kagyat na benepisyo lang nakikita mo tulad ng gusali dyan sa PUP. sige lang, ipagpatuloy mo yan. bahagi yan ng proseso ng kaalaman. matututo ka rin. mamumulat ka rin. at balang araw, matututo ka ring magtanong tulad ng ginagawa ko ngayon. ipagpatuloy mo ang gawain. maglingkod sa sambayanan! mabuhay ka! sa tagumpay ng ........... pakikibaka!

(may ibig sabihin yung ........ . Pero natitiyak ko, hindi mo naiintindihan yon kaya hwag mo na ipagpilitan yung catalyst, pwede?)

to johndoe:

"I have no beef na pinupuna mo ang BM."

Yun naman pala eh bakit parang ang sama sama ko na sa mata ng mga kasamahan mo dyan? tignan mo na lang ang comment ni hawaiianguy. sabi nya, "silly ideas of Pinoy, misplaced, and lacking in logic, and approaching stupidity." may nagsabing magsuicide na lang daw ako. Meron namang nagsabing "either you are a government agent or walang magawaNG TAO". simpleng pamumuna lang kung anu ano na ang itinawag sa akin. pinapakita lang nun yung kakitiran ng kaisipan ng iba dyan. ginagawang personal yung atake imbes na pag usapan ng maayos ang isyu.

"Ang bone of contention ko sa iyo ay yung iyong false claim which you used para sumbatan ang BM. "

I finally saw the post. Doon pala yun sa "GMA may have balls but no heart and soul." Duon pala galing si Noli Me Tangere na pilit sinasabing ako na hindi naman talaga ako. Ngayon ko nga lang nabasa yung topic na yun kung hindi mo pa binanggit.

Nakita ko na rin finally si "Pinoy". Hindi ako yon. Pareho lang kami ng handle. Ang title ng blog nya, Pinoy Engineer. Ang blog ko, Ang Pinoy Nga Naman. Ang pinoy nya with a capital P, sa akin small p. Walang laman ang blog nya. Marami rami na rin akong nasulat sa akin.

Since you are more sober now, an apology will be proper.

It seems nobody is up to my challenge to debate on policy directives coming from the top. Anybody up for it?

11:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

o ano mga kupaloids na batasan 6. wala na naman kayo magawa?

ang tatapang niyong mga kupal kayo pag nasa kalye kayo kse palibot kayo ng mga ginagago at bayaran ninyong MASA (kuno) pero bkit ngayon nagtatago kayo dyan sa kongreso, bakit ayaw niyo lumabas mga bakla kayo?

puro kayo dakdak puta kayo pero PERA lang din ng gobyerno pakay niyo mga LETSE kayo.

nagpapakasasa kayo sa PORK barrel tapos ginagamit niyo pa ito sa panunuhol sa mga tao para sumama sa mga rally niyong mga anak ng PUTA kayo.

magpakamatay kayo baka sakali umunlad ang pilipinas kse mababawasan na ang mga pangGULOng tulad niyong mga kupal kayo.

KUPAL kayo kse kayo ay parang dumi sa lipunan gaya ng dumi sa ari ng isang lalaki. gets niyo mga kupalin?

2:36 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

"Iyang ganyang ugali ninyo ang maghihila sa inyo pababa. Nangyari ito noong 1986 nang mag boykot kayo sa snap election. Nangyari ito noong PINAGPAPATAY ninyo ang mga kasamahan ninyo. Di malayong mangyari ito uli." (emphasis not in original)

What "group" are you talking about? Time to name names, man!

I insist that this is another case of misplaced, oversimlified or illogical generalization. Calling people as the same banana. Your wild reference to "group" looks like one comprising all those who critiqued your pigged-out porky stuff for being in "league" with one another.

Make no mistake about it. I don't even know Johndoe, PTZ, Tonyo, or anyone here; and they don't know me either. Surely, we blog with the same vibration. Would you also call "support" to or "sympathy" with a "group" membership in that group? (as PTZ acknowledged)

"...PINAGPAPATAY niyo kasama ninyo"

Whew! MURDER is is a very grievous charge. Wish you were brave enough to tell what you know. I want to be enlightened on this, being oblivious to the "group" you mentioned. Sino ba talaga ang tinutukoy mo? (Tingin ko sa recent posting mo marami kang alam, why not spill the beans?)

Ayaw mo matawag na LIAR, pero ang dali mo namang manghusga sa iba na MURDERER. Your turn to prove it.

3:13 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiinguy:

"What "group" are you talking about? Time to name names, man!"

ay sori ng marami. hindi ka pala ND? mga dating kasama! may abante pero lutang na masa dito! recruit na, dali!!!

"I want to be enlightened on this, being oblivious to the "group" you mentioned."

Search mo sa internet, Kampanyang Ahos. You will be entlightened.

4:46 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

Good you are still there. If there's a virtue that I admire in you, it's your persistence.

Like what you said, I'm never convinced of your excuses. Hiding behind the internet is the refuge of the indeterminate and people whose ideas have become bankrupt. Don't be oblique, man. What is the group you are talking about? Are you afraid, huh?

Also, am eagerly waiting for your comment or answer to this:

"...PINAGPAPATAY niyo kasama ninyo"

Ayaw mo matawag na LIAR, pero ang dali mo namang manghusga sa iba na MURDERER. Your turn to prove it.

5:08 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiinguy:

"Hiding behind the internet is the refuge of the indeterminate and people whose ideas have become bankrupt."

Hello!!!!! I am just commenting on a blog and expressing my views. Now you accuse me of hiding behing the internet? You are not my intended audience anyway. It is the batasan 6. You are just a collateral damage.

"What is the group you are talking about?"

I already apologized. I thought you were an ND but obviously you are not. If you don't know what ND is, let's leave it to that. It is not my duty to explain it to you since, as you said, I have bankrupt ideas anyway.

"...PINAGPAPATAY niyo kasama ninyo"

Have you searched Kampanyang Ahos?


PS - Don't search or use wikipedia to find out what ND is. It will just confuse you more. Good luck in your quest.

6:14 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

To Pinoy,

"Napakalaki ng problema ninyo. Napakakitid ng pag iisip ninyo. Kahit pagtulung tulungan nyo pa ako, di ako matitinag. Kahit magkampihan pa kayo. Iyang ganyang ugali ninyo ang maghihila sa inyo pababa. Nangyari ito noong 1986 nang mag boykot kayo sa snap election. Nangyari ito noong pinagpapatay ninyo ang mga kasamahan ninyo. Di malayong mangyari ito uli."

You did not answer the question about the MURDER, and who the MURDERER is.

If it is your right to ask a "simple question," as you repeatedly said, you also owe people an EXPLANATION about a simple question I now raise. Come on, man.

Don't you see, I'm asking you? Turning the table around is just a facile tactic of evading a straightforward question. No internet please! I want your answers posted right here, now.

7:03 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiianguy:

"you also owe people an EXPLANATION"

maybe you meant, "you also owe ME an explanation". no i don't owe you an explanation. you cannot comprehend my previous statements because you "do not belong".


"Turning the table around is just a facile tactic of evading a straightforward question."

You ask the question because you "do not belong". If you "belong", you will not be asking the question.

"I want your answers posted right here, now."

Sorry dude. With your arrogance, I won't waste my time giving an answer. you figure it out.

Don't worry. Ignornce is bliss.

7:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yan kasi malabo syo pinoy eh.

pilit mong hinahalo ang legal left at ang underground left.

hawaiianguy, ang ibig sabihin nya ung na-publish noong dec 2003 (or 2004, di ko matandaan) sa inquirer, ung tungkol dun sa nangyaring hysteria sa underground left (NDF-CPP-NPA).

As far as I read and understood(not know pinoy, take note) from the counter reply by CPP on that editorial by inquirer 2 ~ 3 years ago, the purging was caused by party renegades, yun ang natatandaan kong point doon.

at sa pagkaka basa ko doon ang paghihinging tawad ng CPP sa mga naging biktima ng hysteria noon pang mga unang taon ng 90's.

Pinoy tama ka nga na hindi alam ni hawaiianguy yun dahil kailanman hindi naging kaparte ng CPP-NPA-NDF ang Bayan muna, totoong si ka satur ay dating kasapi ng NDF, ngunit wala na sya sa NDF at ngayon nga tinatahak ang parlamentaryong landas ng pagbabago.

Para bagang sinabi mo na walang karapatan c bobby tiglao at mike defensor sa gabinete ni gma dahil minsan naging bahagi rin sila ng kaliwang kilusan legal or underground.

10:14 PM  
Blogger Tonyo said...

is it impossible for batasan6 critics to respect the right to due process of leftists being accused of government of rebellion?

the right to due process includes:

the right to be informed of the charges

the right to a preliminary investigation in order to determine probable cause into the charges

the right to examine all documents and witnesses

the right against prejudgment by the prosecutors and the head of prosecutors

the right to appeal

the right against warrantless arrests


or are batasan6 critics applauding the shortcircuiting of the legal processes because the respondents in the rebellion cases are ideological enemies (i.e. leftists)?

these questions begs answers because this blog is about justice, about due process for all regardless of political beliefs.

answers please...

11:34 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Anonymous,

Salamat sa maliwanag na paliwanag. Di tulad nung kay pinoy na panay "magresearch ka na lang sa internet" at yung logic na puro illogical. Parang gobyerno din ang line niya. (Tingnan mo kung manumbat.) Nagkunkunwari pa na anti-GMA pero kung magsalita kuhang kuha si Gloria. Nagmamalinis at kunwari ay may alam. Kung ano-ano ang sinasabi na paiba-iba ang tono. Tama ka rin, pinaghahalo-halo niya.

To pinoy,

Finally, you have reverted to your true form and natural state. Your posting betrays what you really are. Crusader daw. Hindi daw liar. At least, even if you run out good ideas, you still have bad ones. Baka pwede na ring pagtiyagaan, para naman masaya dito. Hehehehe!

Kaya lang nagsawa na rin ang iba sa iyo. Panay na nga ang warning nila na huwag ka ng patulan. Tsk tsk tsk!

12:29 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Tonyo,

Am sure, pinoy will not answer the intelligent questions you just raised. He had just posted a challenge on "policy formulation," which is essentially the same bugging porky stuff he started talking about. I think he has developed both an incorrigible mental set and a hellish attitude toward the Batasan6 (esp. to BM). Look at how naive his reply was to your long and clear posting (“am not sure if you avoid answering or understand my last point”). People like him won't ever change or learn if they don't find meanings from what they say (as Bloated Skyflakes so bluntly said). Yet they keep on demanding for change from others. Quest for simple answers will never end, when people refuse to listen and open up their minds.

Expect infantile remarks (“makikitid ang pag iisip niyo,” "kupal niyo"), even if you plead your case to the pathetic. Maybe a miracle, a tragedy, and a lifetime of rethinking can make a difference.

I will post my opinion, if others take up Tonyo's invitation. Or, if the other side see it as productive or constructive thing to do.

3:15 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

To the anonymous caregiver in LA,

I re-read your post and found something that we share together, as pinoys working overseas. This is what others from pinas hardly realize. Sacrifice, unity. So sweet and pleasing to the ear. But we are so inundated by the call for sacrifice and unity that sweetness has turned into cacophonic, or deafening, sounds.

Complaining, sometimes we are given a politically wrong advice. ("Bakit hindi na lang kayo umuwi dito at magtanim ng kamote?" "Ang iingay ninyo, punta na lang kayo sa China tutal komunista naman kayo.")

For whose benefit are we to sacrifice and get our acts together? Apparently for the ruling few who are brazen liars and thieves, masquerading as concerned leaders which they are not. They just extract from the sweat of their poor kababayans already doing enormous personal sacrifices for their families. (These are not Marxian lines.)

Until this point, I have not read anything on how part of the OFW money that goes to government as "taxes" is used. And they maintain their commitment to transparency? Tell that to the marines who helped them steal the votes for Gloria!

What I hear is the call for more sacrifices, and persistent government efforts to send people out, hoping that remittances will flow back and bail out our ailing economy.

Who's the cause of this ill in the first place? And who is truly benefitting from these remittances? Just asking.

I don't argue that the OFW's families do benefit. On the larger scheme of things, I believe the monthly sustento they receive is peanuts compared to the huge benefits that this illegitimate government is now enjoying and falsely advertising as fruit of government's policy and program. The sheer volume of such remittances (about 10-15% of GDP, correct the stat if wrong) is what keeps at bay a plumetting economy measured by one indicator: recovery of the exchange rate. (Other indicators like the gini index may show that inequality is on the rise, high unemployment, and the widening gap between people's capability to earn and their inability to make both ends meet, etc.)

This is not griping against the government. It's a plea that it should GO and make its own supreme sacrifice. The longer it stays under a shrouded image, the greater the suffering of poor people while the few rich who sing Gloria's allelujah enjoy immensely.

5:07 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to anonymous:

pilit mong hinahalo ang legal left at ang underground left.

paki sagot lang. bakit may BAYAN MUNA and company, AKBAYAN at SANLAKAS na hindi magkasundo pero kung tutuusin halos pareho ang ideyolohiya at linyang pampulitikal.

kahit sino pwedeng sumagot.


to hawaiianguy:

alam mo na ibig sabihin ng ND?

7:25 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to tonyo,hawaiianguy, etc:

Am sure, pinoy will not answer the intelligent questions you just raised.

As I said to johndoe, "BM pa rin ang ibinoto ko. Dahil alam kong sinsero kayo sa hangad ninyong pagbabago. Na sinsero kayo na mapabuti ang kalagayan ng masang pilipino. Na nagsasakripisyo kayo alang alang sa sambayanang Pilipino."

I feel I am not the one alluded to when tonyo mentioned batasan6 critics.

Secondly, I am not really that informed about the issue so I am not in the position to form an opinion nor make a judgment.

8:06 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

"alam mo na ibig sabihin ng ND? "

Sori, hindi. Wala pa sa bokabularyo ko yan.

Meron akong medyo mahabang post sa yo. Huwag ka lang magagalit. Sana kung magtanong ka ay hindi pahalang na may kasunod insulto. ("Nilamon" na ba kayo .."happy now?") Kaya siguro hindi nakapagpigil yung ibang bloggers, bumaba din sa level mo. At huwag yung feel mo na ikaw lang ang me alam ("mamumulat ka rin. at balang araw, matututo ka ring magtanong tulad ng ginagawa ko ngayon," "all you have are excuses"). Pansin ko, pati yung maayos na explanation, supalpal mo agad. Sabagay, mas magalang pa rin ang language mo kaysa dun sa iba diyan na babuyan na talaga. Hindi ka naman evil sa tingin ng karamihan dito tulad ng akala mo ("sama sama" ko sa tingin ninyo). But am sorry to say, that your relentless and pesky query on the pork issue has made you appear stupid, and your ideas related to it silly, because of the many hours of considered responses to you which you outrightly deny any merit.

Ano ba talaga agenda mo? Pwede mo naman sigurong e email yung tanong mo kina Ka Satur kung hindi ka pa satisfied. Sinayang mo lang ang oras ng iba na nagisip mabuti ng isasagot sayo.

Yun lang. And, oh, don't take it as an insult or lecture. Far from it. Payong kapatid lang.

8:57 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiianguy:

Sori, hindi. Wala pa sa bokabularyo ko yan.

Since you are more tactful in your last post, allow me to tell you a story.

ND stands for national democrat. At least that's what they call themselves. I was once a national democrats. I was a member of a legal organization which was at the forefront of rallies then. Membership in this legal organization is not simply joining rallies. You attend "pag-aaral" or teach ins where you discuss the ills of society. If fellow members feel you are "ripe", you will be invited to join the underground. This becomes more exciting. You give yourself an alias and everything is coded as in everything. In the underground, you will become part of an underground organization. Mine was Kabataan Makabayan. If your comrades in the underground see you again to be "ripe", then you will be invited to join the party, the communist party, that is.

The NDs are the group of BAYAN MUNA, GABRIELA, ANAKPAWIS, LFS, KMU, MIGRANTE, COURAGE, etc. on the above ground. These groups fuel the so called mass movement.

The underground ND essentially is CPP/NPA/NDF. Under the NDF are many other underground organizations which includes the KABATAANG MAKABAYAN.

The way you post, I believe you are "ripe" for the underground since somewhere I saw you post that you are open to the ideals of socialism. Unfortunately, you are still unorganized or "lutang" on the assumption that you do not belong to any ND legal organization.

There are other groups on the left side of the political spectrum. The socialist democrats or socdem or SD, the popular democrats or popdem, the liberal democrats or libdem and last but not the least, the god dem (joke). It will take a book to discuss this.

At huwag yung feel mo na ikaw lang ang me alam ("mamumulat ka rin. at balang araw, matututo ka ring magtanong tulad ng ginagawa ko ngayon,"....)

I posted the above statement for ptc_publicwindow who keeps lecturing me on "catalyst".

Eto ang sabi nya, talo ka pa ng 3rd yr high school eh, alam ang ibig sabihin ng catalyst.

Syempre hindi ko na papatulan yung ganun statement.


But am sorry to say, that your relentless and pesky query on the pork issue has made you appear stupid, and your ideas related to it silly,

That is your opinion. Call me all the names you want. Allow me to list them. You called my idea silly, stupid, pigged out, misplaced, lacking in logic, and approaching stupidity just to name some. Someone posted na mag suicide na lang daw ako. Kesyo ahente naman daw ako ng gobyerno. Na ako daw si noli me tangere. Na pro GMA. Pinakmabigat sa lahat, binansagan akong sinungaling.
Except for the liar thing, I really have no problem with what others want to label me. That is your/their opinion anyway. But can you at least respect my position that I am not concinved with the so called "explanations".

Isang tanong lang.

If PDAF is considered as a resource and weapon, as how the others termed it, then why call for its scrapping?

Is my question stupid, illogical or silly? Nobody can give me a straightforward answer. It is always mentioned that the money is being spent wisely but that is not my issue.

I am a very reasonable individual. It is not hard for me to admit my mistake nor give an apology when it is called for. You can attest to that.

It's been insinuated by johndoe that I am a liar. I cannot let that one pass. I have proven him wrong and I am still awaiting for his apology.

Pwede mo naman sigurong e email yung tanong mo kina Ka Satur kung hindi ka pa satisfied.

It's better to discuss this issue in the open.

Sinayang mo lang ang oras ng iba na nagisip mabuti ng isasagot sayo.

Hindi nasayang ang oras nila dahil nag isip sila. Yun naman talaga ang punto ko. Mag isip kayo.

Payong kapatid lang.

Salamat.

I've already shifted gear and raised the issue of AKBAYAN and SANLAKAS. Anyone?

1:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alam nyo mga parepareho kayong mga NPA..mag-away na lang kayo sa bundok. Kita nyo na kayo-kayo nag-aalispustahan na. Sana magising kayo sa katotohanan na ginagamit din lang kayo kase kapag nanalo mga lider nyo, sila rin mangaabuso.

1:56 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

pinoy,

ok, got you now. hope you also tone down your tactless postings.

thanks for the info you shared about the "group." some of those are widely known, its just that one needs to go deep to learn more about it.

"mag isip kayo"

ayan ka na naman. pag ganyan tono mo, lagi ka meron kaaway. hindi ka ba marunong matuto? just remember the golden rule.

2:21 PM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

Did I hear my name na may utang sa iyo pinoy?

If our explanations about the pork barrel are swept away as unconvincing, are we also not entitled to the same suspension of belief when someone comes to us claiming in cyberspace that he is one and not the other?

No, pinoy. You will have to buy my apology only when I cease to be naive or tom fool.

6:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"paki sagot lang. bakit may BAYAN MUNA and company, AKBAYAN at SANLAKAS na hindi magkasundo pero kung tutuusin halos pareho ang ideyolohiya at linyang pampulitikal."

bakit hindi pa puede? kahit ilang grupo or party ng social democrats, Trotskista, atbp... hindi ba puede sa isang demokrasya?

paanong nag kapareho ng linya ang Bayan block sa iba soc dem party? ikaw nga muna ang sumagot a sarili mong tanong Pinoy.

7:41 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Tama ka anonymous,

Itong si pinoy, pinaghalo-halo na niya ang lahat, pati ang balat at ang tinalupan.

Maganda yung point mo, lalo na dun sa democracy.

To pinoy,

Since you have made a somewhat blanket categorization, let me ask you this. You mean to say that NDF, NPA-CPP, "legal" left, "underground" left, party lists, etc. ARE THE SAME? What's your basis? What ideology are you talking about?

Don't tell me to go to the internet again. And don't make this an excuse ("you don't belong, so don't ask question") for not answering a very valid, legitimate point. Aren't we talking as decent people?

1:30 AM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiianguy:

"Mag isip kayo"

That statement that I made was not meant to be an insult or something to that effect. It's more of a challenge. Maging mapanuri. Be critical.

to johndoe:

are we also not entitled to the same suspension of belief when someone comes to us claiming in cyberspace that he is one and not the other?

even after I have pointed out that the Pinoy you are referring to comes with a capital P and lead you to Pinoy Engineer blog while mine is with a small p and leads you to Ang Pinoy Nga Naman blog? Such arrogance!!!! Now matter how righteous your cause may be, without humility, your cause is nothing.

to anonymous:

bakit hindi pa puede? kahit ilang grupo or party ng social democrats, Trotskista, atbp... hindi ba puede sa isang demokrasya?

Pwedeng pwede. Ang tanong ko bakit nag aaway away sila eh halos pare pareho lang naman ang linyang dinadala nila.

paanong nag kapareho ng linya ang Bayan block sa iba soc dem party?
tanunging mo sila kung ano ang ipapalit kay GMA. ang mga sagot nila, transition government to be composed of blah, blah, blah.

pagdating ng May 1, magrarali sila pero may kanya kanyang venue yang tatlong grupong yan.

lahat sila kontra imperyalista.

lahat sila para sa nasyonalisasyo ng mga mahahalagang industriya.

lahat sila nananawagan ng tunay na reporma sa lupa.

etc. etc.

pero ayun, sila sila hindi magkasundo.

to hawaiianguy:

You mean to say that NDF, NPA-CPP, "legal" left, "underground" left, party lists, etc. ARE THE SAME?

Not the same but they complement each other. At least for the CPP/NPA/NDF and BAYAN MUNA and company block.

SANLAKAS/PM has its own underground armed group.

AKBAYAN has totally renounced armed struggle.

What's your basis?
Basis for what? That they complement each other? It's this way.

The legal movement or the so called mass movement (BAYAN MUNA, GABRIELA, ANAKPAWIS, KMU, LFS, COURAGE, MIGRANTE, etc) simply brings to the public the issues of the national democrats or any particular group. These groups bring to the public issues such as wage hikes, genuine land reform, land to the landless, end to imperailist influence/control, free education, GMA resign, no to oil price hike, etc. Being above ground or legal, they cannot raise the call for armed struggle. They cannot do that unless they want to be jailed.

The call for armed struggle is the work of the underground group. Both the underground and the aboveground believe that only through gaining/grabbing political power can real change be instituted because they believe they have the solution to the ills of our society. This can only be accomplished through armed struggle. At least, to their point of view. The legal left cannot, will not, should not, will never admit in public their support for armed struggle. That is not their role. Their role is to make the condition ripe for the success of the armed struggle by creating a strong and sustained mass movement.

9:33 AM  
Anonymous kuro said...

Pinoy, ukol mga party list org, talaga naman totoo yan. Kunwari nagkakaisa pero maraming alitan, hinanakitan, pasikatan, etc., ang mga iyan. Ganyan din ang iba pa sa oposisyon kaya hindi umabante.

Subalit, hindi naman mapagkakaila ang maraming pangaabuso ni GMA. Di na kailangan ipaliwanag pa iyan. Pakingan o basahin na lang natin ang mga sinasabi ng kanyang mga tauhan. Malinaw na puro kalokohan.

Di mapagkakaila na lahat ng pilipino ay gusto ng responsable at tuwid na pamahalaan, kasama na ako at ikaw diyan.

Sa kasalukuyang kapangyarihan, hindi mangyayari iyan.

11:43 AM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

Pinoy,

"Mag isip kayo"
"That statement that I made was not meant to be an insult or something to that effect. It's more of a challenge. Maging mapanuri. Be critical."

Wondering if "critical thinking" is not the essence of most blogs posted against yours, or directed to the general readership here. If you see otherwise, it is a gross underestimation. But I can let this pass, for now (since you qualified that you meant no insult).

For your lengthy explanation to my other questions, I thank you for teaching me. You saved my day without doing much research and attending teach-ins.

I was also hoping you would clarify on the "ideology" that bound (or should complement) those groups you mentioned.

"Should complement each other"
"Being above ground or legal, they cannot raise the call for armed struggle. They cannot do that unless they want to be jailed."

They are now on the way to jail.

Why then are they lumped together by GMA's regime in the rebellion charge? (They don't cooperate with each other, you said.) Do you think this is justified? (Batasan6 and Sison et al. are all common respondents in the charge sheet of rebellion, based on DoJ's recent pronouncement that a "probable cause" exists.)

Just curious about your personal opinion, if you oblige to give one.

12:54 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to kuro:

Subalit, hindi naman mapagkakaila ang maraming pangaabuso ni GMA.

Totoo yan. Di yan maipagkakaila. Pero hindi dahil pinupuna mo yung pumupuna kay GMA, maka GMA ka na, tulad ng interpretasyon ng iba.

Di mapagkakaila na lahat ng pilipino ay gusto ng responsable at tuwid na pamahalaan, kasama na ako at ikaw diyan.

Sa kasalukuyang kapangyarihan, hindi mangyayari iyan.


Ang akin lang naman, ano man ang ipalit natin, umusad na tayo bilang isang bansa. Hindi iyon mananatili tayo sa pagkakalugmok o mas masahol pa pagkatapos mapalitan ang kasalukuyang rehimen.

to hawaiianguy:

Wondering if "critical thinking"....

Let's just all keep an open mind.

I thank you for teaching me.

No problem.

I am still awaiting for someone to refute, debunk, rebutt, dispute my explanation so we can have a more lively discussion. But the problem is, the moment they do that, they have to admit first that they "belong".

I was also hoping you would clarify on the "ideology" that bound (or should complement) those groups you mentioned.

Whew! That's a tall order. I don't know if you can get hold of a copy of Philippine Society and Revolution by Amado Guerrero (Joma in real life).

They have this dialectical and historical materialism, marxism, leninism and mao tse tung thought. You try to visit the sites of NDF, NPA, CPP. It may help. But as I keep saying, keep an open mind. Always try to listen to the other side.

They are now on the way to jail.

As I kept on posting, I am not really privy on the details of their current condition. It's their share of the limelight. Please don't condemn me for saying that. It's just how I see it. The same way when the AKBAYAN representative was hauled to jail during a rally. She had her moment then. Did BAYAN MUNA condemn this arrest? I did not hear anything from them with the arrest of the AKBAYAN rep. The same way that I am not hearing anything from AKBAYAN with this current supposed "persecution" that BAYAN MUNA reps are in right now.

"Why then are they lumped together by GMA's regime in the rebellion charge? "

Who are being lumped together?

2:37 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

pinoy,

"Who are being lumped together?"

Sison et al, Batasan6, and several others on the same charge sheet for rebellion (see news for details).

Is what the govt doing to them justified? (esp. on the alleged tieup between NPA/CPP/NDF and Batasan6. Clearly, that's the govt position, not yours. Just want to hear your opinion, if you mind.)

And, oh, on your other post that I'm "ripe for the underground." Sorry to say, it never occurred to my mind. However, I'm open to discussing ideas about communism/socialism and all those isms, incl. democracy.

3:13 PM  
Anonymous johndoe said...

pinoy,

"even after I have pointed out that the Pinoy you are referring to comes with a capital P and lead you to Pinoy Engineer blog while mine is with a small p and leads you to Ang Pinoy Nga Naman blog? Such arrogance!!!! Now matter how righteous your cause may be, without humility, your cause is nothing."

Hindi arrogance yan pinoy. Iba yung arrogance at iba rin yung keyrpuuul, sabi baga ng mga kikay na fashionista. Keyrpuuul as in careful. Ako, pagkatapos mong magclaim na ibinoto mo ang BM ng dalawang beses tapos bira ka ng bira doon sa akala mong achilles heel nila, syempre I'd put my trust on the alert mode for possible false claims.

Kahit ikaw naman seguro ganoon din ang gagawin eh. Kung may lalapit sa iyo na magpakilala siya ang diyos pero forked ang kanyang dila, maniniwala ka ba kaagad?

Sanay ako sa CSC pinoy kaya madali akong mag-apologize. But just like the CSC in the movement, you have to earn it not demand it on the basis of your say so.

Please keep on posting here.

6:01 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiianguy:

Is what the govt doing to them justified? (esp. on the alleged tieup between NPA/CPP/NDF and Batasan6. Clearly, that's the govt position, not yours. Just want to hear your opinion, if you mind.)

I posted my response on the "Why we're still here" of Ted Casino where it is more appropriate.

6:21 PM  
Blogger Hawaiianguy said...

pinoy,

Sorry, you got me wrong here. So, let me post it to you again:

Do you think this is justified? (Batasan6 and Sison et al. are all common respondents in the charge sheet of rebellion, based on DoJ's recent pronouncement that a "probable cause" exists.)

This has something to do with the most recent development in RP. Your previous postings are anachronistic to this event.

Anyway, just forget it if you are not comfortable answering this one.

12:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So appropriate pala magpost
ng porkbarrel issues dito sa
DISCOVERING THE BATASAN COMPLEX + MORE

how appropriate... grabeh
tumambling ako dun ah...

nag-expect ako na mag-reply
mga posters doon sa post
na discovering batasang complex

tapos binaboy lang nung pinoy
at mga katulad niya ng mga
irrelevant post

ang cheap cheap mo pinoy and
likeminded cheap dogs

sana sa ibang forum ka na lang
manggulo or magmasturbate ka na
lang

world peace

3:56 PM  
Blogger pinoy said...

to hawaiianguy:

Do you think this is justified? (Batasan6 and Sison et al. are all common respondents in the charge sheet of rebellion, based on DoJ's recent pronouncement that a "probable cause" exists.)

I really have no idea what evidence the police has to file rebellion charges against Batasan6 and Sison et al. So I cannot form my own judgment if their action is justified.

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hindi po ako nag-aral kaya medyo atubili ako. Gusto ko lang malaman bakit po galit iyong iba sa kumunista? Ano po ba ang ginawa ng mga kumunistang tulad ng China, Russia, Cuba, North Korea sa Pilipinas? Sa pagkakaalam ko, itong mga korporasyon ng Amerika, Uropa at Hapon ang nagnanakaw ng lupa, ginto at ibapa, oil at natural gas mula sa Pilipinas. Ilan po bang Pilipino ang pinatay na ng kumunistang Tsina, Ruso, Cubano, etc.? Nagtatanong lang po, dahil hindi ko maintindihan ang paikut-ikot na mga argumento. Siguro ay ganito na lang kasimple ang dapat talakayin.

8:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kapag ba ang China nag-massacre ng chinese dahil wala namang pinoy na nadawit? Kapag ba mga North korean, nagtoture ng mga Korean, wala na rin tayong pakialam kase di naman mga pinoy ang pinapahirapan nila..oo wla nga silang ginagawa sa Pinas kase busy pa sila sa mga sarili nilang bakuran..hintay na lang natin na sakupin ng China ang spratleys..tapos..kapag mahina na amerika baka isunod na nilang sakupin ang Luzon...

3:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sagutin nyo naman ang tanong ko.

1:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sasagot ba kayo o hindi? Iihian ko ang blog na ito pag di nyo ako sinagot.

12:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pagbibigyan kita anonymous ka,

Ika nga sa english, "let's cross the bridge when we get there."

Hindi naman natin problema yan, at mas marami pa tayong hinaharap na dapat ayusin. Saka na yang China at North Korea, malayo pa iyan. Kelangan talunin muna nila ang Amerika bago mangyari yan, di ba? At kelan naman mangyayari yun? Pag nasagot mo yang tanong na iyan, sagot na rin ang katanungan mo, hehehehe!

Gets mo na? Sige, ihian mo na ang blog na ito!

5:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

sagot ba iyan? basahin mo ulit ang tanong ko kung tamang sagot ba iyan anonymous ka. iniiwasan mo ang tanong ko anonymous ka.

Iihi na talaga ako dito pag ganyan ka anonymous ka.

3:39 PM  

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